Emirates - how is it?
 

Before any of you refer me to pprune.org - I’m not even going to try there. Lots of negativity and bias that I’d rather not focus on, plus, people on this forum seem to know more of what they’re talking about.

I understand as a pilot in the United States it’s a lot easier to just go to the majors and have a great life, but I feel like there’s more to life than hopping back and forth around the US for 10+ years before finally being able to go to Europe, Asia, Australia, etc; I want to explore the world!

The only downside would be to move from the security and familiarity of the United States.. but I’m sure that won’t be a problem after getting used to Dubai. I’ve heard the pay is also good.

So if there’s any EK pilots on here that would be willing to share their experience I would be extremely grateful to have an insight to what it’s like.

Side note - I know nobody is flying for Emirates right now (save a few) so I thought now would be a good time to ask with everyone having some time off.

I dont fly for EK but i do know a thing or two about them. Right now they have pretty much shut down and will not be hiring for years to come..Other than that, yes you will get to see the World flying for them.

Yeah it’s a shame but I guess it’s all for the better.

Are we pretending like covid19 didn't happen? Then he we go..

Probably a safer bet to stay in the US where we have unions and stuff. But if you're trying to get some heavy time for the majors you could do a few years at EK. You will fly a lot!

Not

If you have the experience to apply to US legacies, but want to fly widebodies off the bat, and your goal is to see the world, then you should consider FedEx or UPS over Emirates.

Yeah, I’m wondering how it was before all of this happened.

I’ve definitely considered them, my problem is is that they fly pretty much ONLY at night, and fly aircraft (apart from UPS’ 747) that I’d rather not fly. I’d rather fly a 777 or A380 across the world during the day than a 75/767 across the world but only during the night, if you get what I mean.

Disregarding the fact they probably won't be hiring for a long time, depends. Obviously no flying now, but from what everyone was worked like a slave beforehand. Money is better than regional, but does not touch any career airline when considering the hours worked.

A 24 hour layover at an airport hotel after a long flight is not seeing the world.

If people were truly worked like slaves there (e.g. long hours and little pay to compensate) no one would work for Emirates. It’s that simple. Plenty of pilots there are expats that can easily leave for their own country without being pressured by the UAE. Unless you work for them, I’m betting you got that information from pprune.org

As far as 24-hour layovers are concerned, that’s not true. Plenty of EK pilots have mentioned elsewhere that they’re around 48 hrs usually. Plus, you’re going to visit the locations more than once so that “48 hours” isn’t all you’re experiencing.

By Western standards, it is. You are guaranteed eight days off a month flying East/West around the world. The ME3 have a revolving door of pilots with ones from the developing world/failed states, golden handcuffs, 25 year olds needing to pay off passive loans, etc. stick around.

Most are 24 hours, some are 48. Only the destinations that are not served daily are longer than a day and a few others. There are dozens of videos of crew on Youtube describing the layovers.

I have a few friends at EK.
just out of curiosity what is your experience level?

I was there for 10 years. Pm me .

The first question to ask is: Does my family want to live in Dubai?

Work from there.

When/if hiring ever comes back in a few years, consider applying to Qatar. Similar experience but we work a whole lot less than the EK guys. Money is better too. We have minimum 24 hour layovers with many that are 48/72 hours as well. Much better company in my opinion. Qatar/Emirates are about the same size with the same destinations. Ofcourse, right now its a game of survival. I was hired at a couple U.S legacy carriers and chose not to leave. The money in Qatar is very good. You will start at $156,000 as a brand new FO all in tax-free. Captains range from $216,000-$400,000. The high end are management pilots. It's certainly not perfect but my last 13 years here were nothing short of amazing. We average 14 days off and get 42 days vacation/2 weeks sick along with excellent medical/dental benefits.

2 yrs as a CA at a regional. I’m pretty sure Emirates hires RJ drivers, no?

And yet there are thousands still flying for them. I don’t think it’s as bad as you’re describing it to be.

Yeah and there is tens of thousands working at Amazon, but no one would claim they are a great employer.

Fwiw, speaking with my friends pretty much most of the stuff on pprune is spot on. Take some of it with a grain of salt, but the posts aren’t far off.

Sounds to me like your mind is already made up Dylan. Go for it!

All these Emirates and Eva threads popping up again circa 2008. Aviation is definitely a predictable cycle.

Only this time there are NO jobs at the ME3 or EVA. Back in 2005-2010, the places to go to were the ME3 or Cathay. Now, no one is hiring.

Thanks, just looking for any EK pilots that can weigh in. I’ve seen so many negative things about the actual job yet people still sustain long careers there.

Idk much about the gulf airlines other people coming back here to be regional FOs from there, it’s all a matter of perspective. Somebody’s trash is anothers....

People usually return to the USA for several reasons. Some get homesick, some get divorced, some cant adjust to living in the Gulf, others only wanted to go overseas for a short period of time...Many reasons but there are those who will retire from here like myself. A lot of misinformation on APC regarding the reasons. Yes there are those that are not a good match for this lifestyle but there's many golden opportunities for those who like it, adjust and stay. Where else in the World can you become a B787/777/A350/A380 Captain in less than 6 years? Its not all roses but its definately not what some people here make it out to be. As far as compensation, I'd like to compare my NET salary with a 30+ year Reserve Delta A350 Captain and lets see the differences. I became a WB Captain at the 5 year point verses someone at a US legacy carrier doing the same job took them 30. Im in my early 40's and have been a WB Captain for 8 out of my 13 years here. When hiring starts again years from now, apply, interview, get the job and then decide for yourself. You can always come back to the USA if you dont like it. On the other hand, you may love the lifestyle and never leave. One thing is certain, you will retire very wealthy from here if you dont blow all your cash on unnecessary things as is the case anywhere.

I’d bet EK guys do as much night as any UPS or FDX pilots, maybe more. Have you done any international flying?

GF

I worked for Emirates for 11 years Dylan. I left at the end of 2013 to come back to a job in the USA. I could have stayed a few more years, but I was very well insulated in the training department and did not have to put up with the crap flying that normal line pilots have.

There are literally dozens of threads on Emirates here on APC, some as old as 2005. Emirates is a far different airline today than when I joined. When I joined the normal schedule on a B777 was to work 12-14 days/month. Lots of time to play golf or hang out with friends and family. The A330 fleet had the worst schedules back then with numerous fatiguing sub-Continent night turns. Those are now on the B777 for the most part. I did a total of about 7 in 11 years with the airline, but again I was very well insulated in the training department. Most guys were doing 3/month minimum.

Dubai was also a much more laid back place in 2003 than it is today. It was far more affordable and had far less traffic.

Many of the benefits have been chipped away at over the years. When I joined 42 days of vacation with credit hours for those days as well as training days was the norm. You could easily take 21-28 vacation days off and place days off on either side of them. I had 30 days off in a row when my son was born in 2005 using just 21 days of vacation. Later it became impossible to take more than 14 days of vacation and the credit had disappeared so if you took them all in one month you still got to fly a full schedule crammed into the remaining 16 days. No credit for training now either, so that full 16-18 day work schedule gets 3 days added every six months for your training to bring it up to 19-21 work days. Plus other odd days of training here and there.

Healthcare was okay when I joined, but now I hear it is terrible. There is now a 5% Value Added Tax (VAT). So many more areas where there have been large decreases that affect QOL. Housing is probably one of the biggest of those. Not sure how the school allowance has kept up with cost, but that is another to look at closely.

When I joined it was a 3 year $36,000 bond. I believe it is 5 years and a much higher dollar amount now. They also started bonding for upgrade as well. Not sure what upgrade times will be if/when they start hiring again, but probably going to be much longer than normal. I upgraded in one year right when they started hiring Direct Entry Captains. Many guys were getting an accelerated 18 month upgrade and the rest were at three years. Those days are long gone.

Some of my friends are still there, but one very telling thing is how the fatigue has adversely affected their health. I was back there on a layover a few years ago and had dinner with three friends. All three has lost their medicals for various reasons and were still there as sim instructors. One of them was a botched operation at a local hospital (almost killed him), the other two could probably be attributed to fatigue related issues, at least in part. A few guys have literally dropped dead, one on a JFK layover. Cumulative fatigue does kill.

Many many more of my friends and acquaintances have moved on to other positions. The Americans all came back to the USA or retired. Many Europeans have gone back to LCC jobs in their home countries. Some do stay for various reasons, usually it is because their countries have terrible options for returning ( Zimbabwe, South Africa, etc). Others just counting the days until they retire.

Emirates was a great option post 9-11 when I joined and in the post 2008 economic meltdown when many more joined. It is no longer a great option, but it may become an option in the post pandemic world. Just realize it is a job that is going to work you to the bone while only giving you the minimum possible compensation that management thinks they can get away with.

As for the other guy posting about Qatar being better, Doha is a ****hole compared to Dubai. Qatar management fires guys at the drop of a hat. Not that EK doesn't let people go, but at least it is a more transparent process. A very good friend left EK and came to where I was working. He left there and went to Qatar as a DEC on the B777. He liked the flying, but had that terrible nagging feeling of being under the gun on every flight. Instead of being happy with a well managed flight like at Emirates, he stated that is was more of a relief that he wouldn't be getting into trouble or terminated for having made a mistake. He also felt completely alone in Doha with nothing to do. He left Qatar after just a year there.

Of course everyone's mileage will vary with these jobs.

Very well said Typhoon but come on, Doha is NOT a ****hole. It's not as vibrant as Dubai but it's a nice, safe city.

Wow, what a response! I appreciate it. Currently working at a regional as a CA, would you say it’s better to not go through the trouble of flying for Emirates and just go straight to a legacy if offered the job?

It seems to me that a lot of people go to Emirates because of its initial appeal, and then back out because, in reality, it’s not so great?

I honestly don't know any Americans who have gone to Emirates in the last 5 years or more. I doubt that there are many given how the U.S. airlines have been hiring in that time.

After my first expat experience in the mid 90s, I came back to the USA saying this, "I would rather be an F.O. at a U.S. carrier than a Captain overseas". Up until a month or two ago that would be my exact sentiment. I would not leave a job in the USA for an F.O. job overseas. The only time it makes sense is when there are no jobs in the USA, which may become the case soon.

When I left the USA in late 2002 I did it with the thought that it would be a maximum 10-15 year deal. I lasted 11, so I was right in my predicted range. The point being, any move to a job overseas needs to be well thought out with an exit strategy back to your home country. If you have a significant other, he/she needs to be in agreement with that strategy.

For those who know what I do now, I am speaking more about airline than other types of flying.

Not like you have ANY options at the moment because none are hiring. We are in a new era. Jobs are all gone. Also, Typhoon was a USAir guy so Emirates was a huge step up for him. Let's be a little more transparent here.

I am not saying you are lying but three months ago I remember you posting on here asking what 121 flying was like. How have you been at a regional long enough to be a 2 year captain if in January you were asking very much newbie type questions. Like I said not calling you out but am I missing something?

Not sure what you mean, could you clarify?

As crazy as this sounds, I had a buddy wanting to ask more specific questions that I wasn’t sure how to answer so I referred him to here. Turns out it auto-logged me in for a majority of the posts and since I can’t delete posts, they’re still there. I understand if you think I’m lying, but that’s just how it played out haha.

A friend who flies for Emirates just posted the list from December 2019. As of then there were 204 Americans flying for Emirates. This is the fourth highest total of expat pilots (ie. non UAE nationals). UK was first at 622, South Africa at 281, Australia with 280, then the US with 204. Canada with 180 and Netherlands with 176 were next on the list. For comparison, there were 376 UAE nationals flying for Emirates.

Don't know about schedules and time off, but I'd think that with 384 Americans and Canadians around, there would be good opportunities to find people with common interests. I spent some time flying in the UK, and while Brits can be a bit pedantic, I have always gotten along well with them.

EDIT - I missed the Indians, there are 200 Indians at Emirates.

Man, I’ve noticed there are a ton of Australians at Emirates. Makes you wonder why they’d choose them over Qantas. Same with the British as they have British Airways..

C’mon Dylan as a regional CA ,as you claim to be , you should know there are a myriad of reasons why Aussies and Brits aren’t working at QF or BA. For the same reason all regional pilots aren’t working at the legacy carriers.

One mainly being the supply of pilots exceeds the demand.

The other I am sure is the golden handcuffs. NYCPilot and TyphoonPilot explained it perfectly.

This thread reeks of something that lives under a bridge.

You can partly thank Emirates for the lack of jobs in Australia...

And how did you come up your hypothesis?

You definitely don’t have a good understanding of FDX/UPS schedules and aircraft.

Really? I was making $130/hour as a 737 F.O. at USAirways in 2002. Great schedule and QOL. I was also an MD-80/90 instructor at Flight Safety Boeing (so captain qualified on that type). I had over 3000 hours PIC jet when I went to Emirates as an F.O.

So, yea, wasn't really a step up to go into the right seat of a 777 at $6K/month but it was a good move given how things turned out at USAirways.