Turkish Air Crashes Short of schiphol
 

Any one knows why? Its apperantly a 737-800, and they crashed short of the rw in schiphol amsterdam.

nu.nl/algemeen | Vliegtuig neergestort bij Schiphol

Don't ask me to translate. Looks like no fire, or it was extinguished fast.

no fatalities...wonder what happen

never mind, BBC just said one died

I believe that number is up to 9 now according to CNN

this is getting out of control.... theres been too crashes this year...

Check CNN International. You can accerss the PPRUNE site too.

Turkish 737-800 crashes in Amsterdam
 

My thoughts and prayers are with all the passengers and the crew.... :(



Nine killed as Turkish plane crashes near Amsterdam airport

Turkish Airlines plane from Istanbul to Amsterdam, crashed 10:40 a.m local time
Plane broke in three, reports say survivors escaped through cracks in fuselage


(CNN) -- A Turkish passenger jet crashed as it tried to land at Amsterdam's main airport Wednesday, killing at least nine people and injuring more than 50 -- 25 seriously -- Dutch airport authorities have said.


Rescuers attend the fuselage of the Turkish Airlines Boeing 737-800 following Wednesday's crash.

The Turkish Airlines Boeing 737-800, which had 127 passengers and seven crew members according to the airline, broke into three pieces on impact in a field near Schiphol Airport.

The injured included both crew and passengers, said Assistant Local Mayor Michel Bezuijen.

It is too early to determine the cause of the crash, Bezuijen said.

A news photographer at the scene said she saw an unknown number of bodies lying under a white blanket, Maaike Voersma, a journalist with Dutch newspaper De Bers, told CNN.

A passenger on the plane who spoke to Turkish network DHA said he saw injured people trapped and squeezed between the seats when he walked off the plane.

The Boeing 737-800, which originated from Istanbul, Turkey, was trying to land at Schiphol when it went down at about 10:40 a.m. local time, Dutch airport officials said.

Pictures from the scene showed the plane broken in three pieces. One tear was in front of the wing, splitting the "Turkish" logo in two, and a larger tear was farther back along he fuselage.

Most of the injured were seated toward the back of the plane, which sustained the most damage, a passenger on the plane told Turkish station NTV. Many of the passengers simply walked off the plane through the cracks in the fuselage, witnesses told NTV.

Images from the scene showed medics treating passengers on the ground next to the buckled hulk of the plane, while firefighters and police examined the aircraft.

Emergency exits were wide open and there was no signs of fire damage to the fuselage. Also visible was one of the aircraft's engines, apparently separated from the shattered remains of one of the wings.

The plane landed in a flat farmer's field near the airport, RTL journalist Greg Crouch told CNN. He said the weather at the time was partly sunny with no wind or rain.

Witnesses said they saw the nose of the plane pitch up suddenly before the crash, Crouch said.

A bank manager who was a passenger on the plane told NTV that there were no emergency announcements. The crew's last word to the cabin was an announcement to fasten seatbelts and prepare for landing, the bank manager said.

He said he felt the pilot giving more power to the engines before feeling "turbulence," then a sudden drop. He described the crash as similar to a sudden impact that was over in a matter of seconds.

Kieran Daly, of Air Transport Intelligence said the impact had been severe but it could have been survivable because of the lack of fire. He added that there had been vast improvements in the materials used to build airplanes, meaning they did not burn as easily.

Daly also said that the Boeing 737-800 is a reliable aircraft that has been successful and safe in service.

"They really are pretty much state-of-the-art airliners with every imaginable technical benefit the industry has come up with over the years," Daly told CNN.

"You would be optimistic that they would be quite survivable in an accident." Daly said the Turkish aviation industry has a "pretty good record" of safety, and that Turkish Airlines, the national carrier, has a "very good record."

Turkish Airlines said it has 52 Boeing 737-800s in its fleet. They can carry as many as 165 passengers each, the airline said.

The airline's last accident was of a small commuter jet in 2003, he said. It was a fatal crash that happened at a remote airfield in eastern Turkey, he said. "Their mainline operation is safe," Daly said. "Their pilots are well thought of."

The last accident at Schiphol Airport happened in December 2003 when an EasyJet flight carrying 103 passengers to London collided while with a lamppost while taxiing during icy conditions, according to Aviation Safety Network's Web site. The crash caused significant damage to the aircraft, but no one was killed.

The last fatal incident at the Amsterdam airport happened in April 1994 when a KLM aircraft crashed shortly after takeoff as it tried to return to Schiphol. Three of the 24 passengers and crew members on board were killed.

another unexplained pitching up of an airplane, another sad day, RIP for those that didnt make it out

That doesn't make any sense Zayghami:D

Both pilots dead.

3 of them actually. Seemed to have been some sort of training flight.

Was there no post crash fire?
 

I noticed this too, I wonder if the fuel tanks were dry?

A large Turkish population in Amsterdam... Could've been commuting home, some European airlines will let you 'jumpseat' on your own airline for a non-rev ticket fee...

Either way, my prayers go out to the entire crew and all their passengers... :(

While flying to Bucharest last night we actually started talking about this, maybe they ran out of fuel.

That's the hot rumor, but right now it's too early to say. Maybe I'll eat my words later. They plopped down on good honest late winter European mud which mitigated the risk of ignition. I didn't hear of any extended delays that would have generated a problem. We'll see. The loss of life is, as always, regrettable.

Im watching the Greek news right now and they have one survivor of Turkish decent getting interviewed. She is stating that she heard the pilot screaming something, then the aircraft pitched up and immediately pitched down. She says she thought it was a joke. 3 pilots in the cockpit, 2 captains and 1 First Officer I think. Turkish has had a lot of crashes, they have a lot of military pilots which is not good, as we all know Turkey is a Military State. So were talking about almost NO CRM within the crews sometimes.

I think there might be a bit of nationalistic generated bias here ... :rolleyes:

No not in any way, I visit Turkey 2-3 times a year and know a few pilots over at Turkish Airlines. The Military is a huge part of Turkey, and I am in no way exaggerating. I fly Turkish aswell, they are a huge company just from talking around the CRM can become non-existent in some cases when flying with the Military guys.

Well, okay, we'll see ... but you're gonna get hammered on this beauty, too:

Captain (1954) Fighter pilot 1975 till 1996 with the Turkish Airforce and since 1996 working for Turkish Airlines also Company Flight Instructor.

first officer (1967) pilot since1989 with Turkish Airforce and last 2 years working for Turkish Airlines.

firstofficer (1980) pilot and working for Turkish Airlines since 2004.

Ha! Maybe so, but I really don't care .. I am actually quiet open with it even with my own company! Of course there are exceptions but a majority of those guys (ones I have flown with not talking about anyone else) never made a good transition from fighters to commercial planes. The best pilots I have flown with are commercial guys, and not military. It's just an opinion, don't get me wrong, I have tons of respect for AF pilots. ;)

Five Turkish citizens and four Americans died on board that flight according to CNN...

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe...ash/index.html

Prelim suggest's engine failure .

Dual or single.

And I'll throw my two cents behind Olympic here too. I've flown with many nationalities in a number of different circumstances (Jet's, TP's, Piston, Airline, Air Attack) and I find what he says to be quite true on average.

seems confirmed 2 pilots and one f/a dead. does anyone accuratley know if there was a 3rd pilot on board? either in training or deadheading?...several witnesses, including passengers have said the engines went to full power seconds before impact. the turkish pilot union is saying it was wake turbulence from a 757...= I say that is hogwash. I am more inclined towards mechanical issues, mel's or even flight training accident if in fact the f/0 was receiving such.... I am almost 80% sure the gpws was yelling...g/s, pull-up , terrain etc.

From eyewitness accounts it was dual.

AC Safety Harness System
 

Pax walked away from this and yet the cockpit crew did not ,which brings me to this and that is maybe it's time for the designer's of these a/c to come up with a system where the crew has a better chance of survival in instances like this in which decelleration forces are the cause of a fatality.

AAHH, some pax are saying they heard the engines spool up just before impact. We just don't know yet.

Looks (VERY preliminary) like it was vertical deceleration. I'm thinking the airplane impacted somewhat nose down at a very steep angle, and the fore end somehow took most of the shock - rest of the airplane just went SPLAT. All three pilots dead, and if the majority of the dead and seriously injured are forward this theory would be borne out. Survivors stated that many had back "lesions" - lots of broken backs would also support this "guess". We'll know soon enough.

Yeah, maybe cockpit armor plate with foam rubber backing ... :)

http://videogaleri.hurriyet.com.tr/V...x?s=5&vid=3149

Video of inside the airplane after the crash.

OH MY! I just heard a news report mentioning that the plane was in maintenance just days before the crash. They made quite a rigamarow about it. Then they went on to explain it was for a MASTER CAUTION LIGHT! Well...at least they ended the report by saying "this problem seems to have had nothing to do with the accident". Then why report it? Is this journaliam in today's age. Come up with a piece of information hat even to the layman looks to have nothing to do with the real story and then practically report it as'"Breaking News'? Disappointing once again.

USMCFLYR

Unfortunately in today's age of 24 hour news, journalist's throw something out and hope it sticks.
BTW I wonder if they explained what a MASTER CAUTION LIGHT was?
The old way of checking fact's first and then reporting was thrown out the window a long time ago.
Fred

Not in the report I saw. It made me shake my head in disgust. :( I could just imagine them grabbing a copy of a MAF on my aircraft that said that one of the two MASTER CAUTION light bulbs were out and trying to make something out of it.

USMCFLYR

Three pilots notice an altimeter error on the Captain's side, keep the plane on autopilot w/ auto-throttles engaged, descend 1500' in this configuration, and they don't do a thing until they get a stall warning @ 450' AGL (they just watch the TL's go back :eek:)? And, to top it off, the CA's a training captain (as posted earlier in this thread).

Really?

It sounds like they were perhaps going for an auto-land. If so, they would have gotten a warning when the altimeters or RA's disagreed (I'm no systems guru, but I'm pretty confident on this one). Regardless, with the automation on, who's not watching it like a hawk, especially below 1000? I just can't see 3 pilots all noticing a RA/altimeter error and choosing to sit on their hands and 'let George handle it', especially a training CA.

cant believe this either....that the autothrottle will command idle thrust just because 1 r/a shows the plane on the ground....

Alot happens on approach, put yourself in their shoes.

Visibility is poor, winds are blowing, its probably a little bumpy as they come down.They cant yet see the runway, and out of nowhere , a master light or aural warning sounds.

First Reaction?
PFD.MFD.EICAS!-> They check it out, by the time they realize what is going on its later than they would like. Throttles to the wall but yet too late. They were aviators, lets give them some credit SNIPER!

Apparently the NG will autoland with Single Channel...
(No bias-trim at 400RA and no FLARE annunciation)

The Autothrottle FLARE is triggered when the faulty #1RA indicated less than 27ft RA

Autopilot B is engaged and continues to follow the GS bleeding off speed.

Since the Autothrottle is in (unanunciated) FLARE mode there is no underspeed protection...

Cheers
George

I agree, they cannot defend themselves here so let the Dutch "NTSB" do their job before we start engaging in speculation ...

Normally I don't speculate, but this is from the Dutch Safety Board.

Looks like an autothrottle led, bleed down to stall, with no crew intervention.
(A/C @ ~2000ft, RA1 fault occurs showing -8FT, A/T commands idle with unannunciated FLARE on the FMA with only 1CH A/P engaged, stick shaker activates at ~400ft with A/T still engaged and commanding idle thrust, throttles advanced manually but retard to idle when hand taken off thrust levers, throttles then advanced to firewall but too late.)




1

Today <4 March 2009>, the Dutch Safety Board has issued a warning for airline manufacturer
Boeing and presents its initial findings regarding the terrible accident involving the Boeing
737/800, Turkish Airlines flight.
This accident claimed the lives on nine people (5 passengers and 4 crew) and 80 passengers were
injured. Twenty eight of those injured are still hospitalised.
The Boeing was en route from Istanbul to Schiphol (on Wednesday 25 February 2009) and was due
to land at Schiphol at 10.40.
The Boeing had had a regular flight and no problems had been experienced until just before the
approach.
There were three people in the cockpit, the captain was located on the front, left hand side. On the
right hand side there was the first officer, for whom this was a training flight. (The first officer had
all appropriate qualifications). There was also an extra first officer in the centre of the cockpit.
The crew made contact with air traffic control (Amsterdam Radar) at 10.04 and was transferred to
the tower at Schiphol - for the landing – at 10.14. The tower then gave the Boeing permission to
land on the Polderbaan 18R.
The Polderbaan was approached according to fixed procedures, without any delay, and the Boeing
was then given permission to decrease its altitude to 2000 feet (about 700 meters) and begin its
descent to the Polderbaan.
This descent takes place with the help of the automatic pilot, as is normal with Turkish Airlines
(this method can be utilised by everybody, as can a manual landing).
The voice recorder and the black box, both of which are in the hands of the Safety Board, show
that an irregularity occurred during the descent, at 1950 feet.
At a height of 1950 feet the left radio altimeter suddenly indicated a change in altitude – from 1950
feet to - 8 feet - and passed this onto the automatic pilot. This change had a particular impact
upon the automatic throttle system which provides more or less engine power.
The radio altimeter normally measures the altitude of the plane above the ground very accurately
and can start registering this from 2500 feet. As already mentioned, this radio altimeter is very
significant for providing the appropriate power for an automatic landing.
A Boeing is fitted with two radio altimeters, a left one and a right one.
The black box has shown that this deviation only occurred in the left radio altimeter.
The voice recorder has shown that the crew were notified that the left radio altimeter was not
working correctly (via the warning signal “landing gear must go down”).
Provisional data indicates that this signal was not regarded to be a problem.
In practice, the plane responded to this sudden change as though it was at an altitude of just a few
meters above the Polderbaan and engine power was reduced.
It seems that the automatic system – with its engines at reduced power – assumed it was in the
final stages of the flight.
As a result, the aircraft lost speed.
Initially the crew did not react to the issues at hand.
2
As a result of the deceleration, the aircraft's speed was reduced to minimum flying speed (stalling
situation) and warning signals (the steering column buzzes at an altitude of 150 metres) were
given.
The black box shows that full power was then applied immediately.
However, this was too late to recover the flight, the aircraft was too low and, consequently, the

Boeing crashed 1 kilometre short of the runway.
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