Emirates hiring FO
02-15-2010, 10:14 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Professional Expat
Posts: 326
TP,
I agree with everything you said and I think you're probably one of the most level headed people for anyone who's considering EK, to talk to. You've always given a fair and honest opinion about all things EK. Which given the rantings on Ppune, is pretty much unique.
There aren't a lot of opportunities for anyone at the moment, whether you're furloughed mainline or overworked regional but it's very easy to get blinkered by the big jets and money that EK bases their recruitment on.
All I'm advocating, is that anyone who is serious about EK, should look at all the pro's and con's. You're locked in for 3 years if you join and it's not the most "homley" place if you end up unhappy.
I do understand the appeal, after all, had the world not gone to sh!t and Boeing not gone on strike, I would have been there for over a year now.
I agree with everything you said and I think you're probably one of the most level headed people for anyone who's considering EK, to talk to. You've always given a fair and honest opinion about all things EK. Which given the rantings on Ppune, is pretty much unique.
There aren't a lot of opportunities for anyone at the moment, whether you're furloughed mainline or overworked regional but it's very easy to get blinkered by the big jets and money that EK bases their recruitment on.
All I'm advocating, is that anyone who is serious about EK, should look at all the pro's and con's. You're locked in for 3 years if you join and it's not the most "homley" place if you end up unhappy.
I do understand the appeal, after all, had the world not gone to sh!t and Boeing not gone on strike, I would have been there for over a year now.
02-15-2010, 10:35 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Capt
Posts: 3,215
Hi!
For me, it probably doesn't matter as I probably won't get an interview call, as I have not much experience over 55 tonnes.
My best shot coming up is Atlas, and then AirTran, and MAYBE DAL if the guys helping me can get me back into another interview.
I would not want to be at EK, and then 6 months later have Atlas call for an interview.
cliff
NBO
For me, it probably doesn't matter as I probably won't get an interview call, as I have not much experience over 55 tonnes.
My best shot coming up is Atlas, and then AirTran, and MAYBE DAL if the guys helping me can get me back into another interview.
I would not want to be at EK, and then 6 months later have Atlas call for an interview.
cliff
NBO
02-15-2010, 12:53 PM
#13
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: B777 Cpt.
Posts: 95
Quick update on the situation:
The company has been squeezing everyone for the maximum hours (up to the overtime threshold, but not beyond) and it starts to show. People are calling in fatigued and some even throw in the towel and go elsewhere, even though conditions are not necessary better.
For example, we have been getting (net) nine more pilots year over year compared to jan '09, while taking delivery of 18 more airplanes. Monthly flying went from ~78 hrs a month to ~90 hours a month. Luckily I'm on the Boeing and get some variation in my schedule, I have a friend who's on the Airbus and he says, he's lucky if he gets one layover a month (And that's Kolkata), everything else is India, Middle East or North Africa turns in the middle of the night. He says he's never been so tired in his live (And he flew Lear charters and air ambulance before).
I just flew with a canadian captain, he sent his family back home a while back and he get's to see them about once a month for a few days, sometimes only every other month. Commuting is just not possible, you literaly have to take vacation to see your family.
The major issue right now is management. They just have a complete disdain for us and it shows.
For instance, two weeks ago, there was an unexpected opening for captain positions on the Boeing (How that can be "unexpected" is beyond me, but give's you an impression of the amount of "planning" that is going on in Flight Ops), so the guys in Flight Ops started calling captains on the Airbus if they wanted to come across.
Well, if you were on vacation, on a trip or your phone was off, you were out of luck. They've filled the class within a couple of hours with whoever answered their phone and everyone else who was eligible in seniority was out of luck.
They not only did this, but they also had the balls to boast about this out of seniority upgrade (And a lot of airbus guys would call it an upgrade even though it was a left seat to left seat transition; the lifestyle is really that bad on the Bus) in the weekly "update" email to pilots.
In a nutshell, there is a reason why recruiting is currently emailing everyone and their mother for applications.
The company has been squeezing everyone for the maximum hours (up to the overtime threshold, but not beyond) and it starts to show. People are calling in fatigued and some even throw in the towel and go elsewhere, even though conditions are not necessary better.
For example, we have been getting (net) nine more pilots year over year compared to jan '09, while taking delivery of 18 more airplanes. Monthly flying went from ~78 hrs a month to ~90 hours a month. Luckily I'm on the Boeing and get some variation in my schedule, I have a friend who's on the Airbus and he says, he's lucky if he gets one layover a month (And that's Kolkata), everything else is India, Middle East or North Africa turns in the middle of the night. He says he's never been so tired in his live (And he flew Lear charters and air ambulance before).
I just flew with a canadian captain, he sent his family back home a while back and he get's to see them about once a month for a few days, sometimes only every other month. Commuting is just not possible, you literaly have to take vacation to see your family.
The major issue right now is management. They just have a complete disdain for us and it shows.
For instance, two weeks ago, there was an unexpected opening for captain positions on the Boeing (How that can be "unexpected" is beyond me, but give's you an impression of the amount of "planning" that is going on in Flight Ops), so the guys in Flight Ops started calling captains on the Airbus if they wanted to come across.
Well, if you were on vacation, on a trip or your phone was off, you were out of luck. They've filled the class within a couple of hours with whoever answered their phone and everyone else who was eligible in seniority was out of luck.
They not only did this, but they also had the balls to boast about this out of seniority upgrade (And a lot of airbus guys would call it an upgrade even though it was a left seat to left seat transition; the lifestyle is really that bad on the Bus) in the weekly "update" email to pilots.
In a nutshell, there is a reason why recruiting is currently emailing everyone and their mother for applications.
02-15-2010, 11:41 PM
#14
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: B777 Captain
Posts: 93
With regards to the "rantings on PPRUNE" and the general discontent at Emirates, I've always said that the most important thing is to come with your eyes open. Anyone considering Emirates should be aware of a few things that have happened recently:
1. The company capped the amount that they will pay for your utilities. Now you can debate the impact (worse for some than others) but the real chilling thing about this is that everyone's contract explicitly states that the company will "meet the cost of water and electricity". The company did not even bat an eye when they decided to violate our contracts and there is very little practical recourse here.
2. The company stated that it was their goal that every pilot be given 30 days of leave a year. Sounds great but again, our contract explicitly states that 42 days of leave will be given. What makes this even worse for pilots from North or South America (or Australia) is that in many if not most cases, they did not even award 30 days. Their practice is to then assign leave in small units of 4 to 5 days a month, count them towards days off and still schedule you for a fully productive month (90-92 hours). Anyone who has tried to go home for less than 10 days will spend a fair amount of time just recovering from the jet lag.
3. Fired a pilot who was in training for mis-entering the approach runway in the FMC and then when the error was discovered (late in the approach), flew the wrong MAP.
4. Increased the overtime threshold from 78 hrs. to 93 hrs. per month (31 day month) under the guise that since we are all flying ULR, the old threshold wasn't realistic. Since the change, most pilots are flying an average of 92 hours. The company basically increased the work we do by 15% for free and then lied about the reason. All this as they proudly trumpet in the press that there were no layoffs or paycuts at Emirates.
5. Previous new joiners, while promised a certain level of accommodation (a villa for pilots with families) were actually given "temporary" accommodations that in some cases consisted of a small 2 bedroom apartment for families of 6. Again, they think nothing of outright lying and do not feel compelled in the least to live up to their word.
I could go on but I hope that at least some of you get the point. The company is getting desperate and is going to start promising things to get you to join. They may even improve the package but will then spend the next few years taking it back. As you can see, even if it is in your contract, they will feel no obligation to honor their word. As far as comparisons with other employers or with unemployment, I'll leave that to you.
1. The company capped the amount that they will pay for your utilities. Now you can debate the impact (worse for some than others) but the real chilling thing about this is that everyone's contract explicitly states that the company will "meet the cost of water and electricity". The company did not even bat an eye when they decided to violate our contracts and there is very little practical recourse here.
2. The company stated that it was their goal that every pilot be given 30 days of leave a year. Sounds great but again, our contract explicitly states that 42 days of leave will be given. What makes this even worse for pilots from North or South America (or Australia) is that in many if not most cases, they did not even award 30 days. Their practice is to then assign leave in small units of 4 to 5 days a month, count them towards days off and still schedule you for a fully productive month (90-92 hours). Anyone who has tried to go home for less than 10 days will spend a fair amount of time just recovering from the jet lag.
3. Fired a pilot who was in training for mis-entering the approach runway in the FMC and then when the error was discovered (late in the approach), flew the wrong MAP.
4. Increased the overtime threshold from 78 hrs. to 93 hrs. per month (31 day month) under the guise that since we are all flying ULR, the old threshold wasn't realistic. Since the change, most pilots are flying an average of 92 hours. The company basically increased the work we do by 15% for free and then lied about the reason. All this as they proudly trumpet in the press that there were no layoffs or paycuts at Emirates.
5. Previous new joiners, while promised a certain level of accommodation (a villa for pilots with families) were actually given "temporary" accommodations that in some cases consisted of a small 2 bedroom apartment for families of 6. Again, they think nothing of outright lying and do not feel compelled in the least to live up to their word.
I could go on but I hope that at least some of you get the point. The company is getting desperate and is going to start promising things to get you to join. They may even improve the package but will then spend the next few years taking it back. As you can see, even if it is in your contract, they will feel no obligation to honor their word. As far as comparisons with other employers or with unemployment, I'll leave that to you.
Last edited by Gillegan; 02-16-2010 at 05:10 AM.
02-16-2010, 03:38 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Posts: 5,926
In recent months, I’ve interviewed with 4 former EK pilots as well has having conversations with other former pilots in Europe, Asia, and the US during layovers. Statements that Gillegan made were pretty much the sentiment of those who I spoke with.
I interviewed with FlyDubai a year and a half ago, and I'm here to tell you… the extension of EK is no great shakes either.
It’s a shame when you have little or no recourse when your company, which is owned by rulers of the Country for breach of contract.
I interviewed with FlyDubai a year and a half ago, and I'm here to tell you… the extension of EK is no great shakes either.
It’s a shame when you have little or no recourse when your company, which is owned by rulers of the Country for breach of contract.
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