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Originally Posted by ERJF15
(Post 815408)
With airlines, CX, what exactly does "repatriation" or "expatriate" mean? I know the true definition, but what does this have to do with working for CX?
FO |
Originally Posted by 4everFO
(Post 815596)
Same thing that they mean with any other expat job. Applies to HKG based guys that were not hired as cadets.
FO |
An "expat" is a person of one nationality, living and working in another country or nation.
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Originally Posted by Kenny
(Post 815690)
An "expat" is a person of one nationality, living and working in another country or nation.
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Originally Posted by ERJF15
(Post 815673)
Thanks for not answering my question...never heard of expat jobs.
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Originally Posted by chignutsak
(Post 815751)
Wow. I Googled expat and it found the answer in .13 seconds. Try it some time.
You can try to get off of my n@%s :D |
Originally Posted by ERJF15
(Post 815791)
You can try to get off of my n@%s :D
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Originally Posted by SUX4U
(Post 815875)
Who let you out of the regional forums?!?
My mommy said I can come out to play :p |
Originally Posted by FlyPurdue
(Post 809710)
Hi All,
I am new to this forum. I will be graduating from Purdue University in December of this year, and just yesterday was contacted by Cathay Pacific, to interview for a position of Second Officer via the Cadet Pilot route. It appears they will pay for everything, and in 12 months, I will be a second officer on a widebody. Now, before I am told to use the search function, I have. I have looked all over this forum, PPrune's Fragrant Harbor site, and I have exhausted all web resources. Do we have any Cathay Employees on this board? Does anybody know if its really that bad? Currently I have north of 500 hours, and 200 of that is instruction. Right now, It looks like regionals might be an option, but a self made time line has me becoming FO in 5 years, on Cathay. In the very least, I would be building heavy jet, xc time, and getting international experience. What are your thought? Thanks! So, if you graduate the cadet program, SO's don't get the 36G/yr housing allowance? That really sucks. But maybe you do get it if you are an expat from the cadet program (which I take it there have not been many of)? Either way, if you can punch your ticket to the CX career, you're done looking for work - you win. The Dominican's advice is on point; but I'd like to give you a little more of a green light. I've gotta think that if you want to be an international pilot, you probably have at least a vague understanding of cultural diversity; therefore I'd bet you can at least "deal with" Hong Kong for even 5 years, get based in the US, and you've got it made. FO on a 747 for CX based in the US at age 30? Oh yeah, I'd take that package. And it's likely you'll find Hong Kong more than tolerable. At a regional in the US you might get 1000 PIC Turbine in 5 years if you're lucky. But, then you've got to get an interview and get hired somewhere still. Chances are, you'd be looking for a job just like that CX FO 747 one mentioned above that you could've already had locked down. Just getting an interview for a great job like that is virtually impossible these days unless you know someone on the hiring board. That's why you see some of these :mad: on this thread. |
I was hired by CX as an FO two and a half years ago and love it. Most of the SO's I know like their schedules and only work less than 10 days a month.
Cadets of any type (international or local) dont get housing. The cadets are working with the Union to get that changed and they have made their unhappiness about this known to the company. My opinion is that housing for cadets may change in a few to many years from now. But know one really knows. I worked my way up to CX via the regionals, then long haul cargo. If I had the opportunity to go to CX as a cadet at the age of 25 verse an FO at 38 I would have done it in a second. I just flew with a Senior Check Captain on the B-777 who is 35 and he was a cadet. Quality of life: there is no better place in the world to be young and single then Hong Kong. Yes housing is expensive but get an apartment with your classmates and then move back to the States when your older. It beats being a regional FO living in a crash pad in Newark for 30K a year. |
Something is up at Cathay.
Cathay poised to place order for widebodies By Leithen Francis Cathay Pacific Airways will shatter Airbus's A380 sales aspirations as it prepares for a widebody buying spree, with deals for long-range twinjets but no near-term plans to order the superjumbo. The Hong Kong airline, which is a major Boeing 747 operator, has long been a target for Airbus's A380 salesmen. However, according to industry sources a request for proposals issued by Cathay in November centred on Airbus A330/A350s and Boeing 777/787s. The airline is expected to finalise these orders this year, with one source suggesting that a decision will be made in June, ahead of the northern summer holidays. Cathay chief executive Tony Tyler declines to comment on the RFP, citing commercial and confidentiality reasons, but confirms the airline "is evaluating new-generation Airbus A350 and Boeing 787 aircraft" The Oneworld carrier needs new widebodies to cater for market growth and allow it to phase out older aircraft, say the sources. The carrier has also said publicly it wants to retire its ageing 777-200s although Tyler says the phase-out will not begin this year. Cathay operates 20 747-400s, some of which are more than 20 years old, and Airbus and Boeing have been trying hard to secure deals to replace them with A380s or 747-8Is. The airline was involved in the A380 programme from the start, taking part in early A3XX customer focus group meetings 15 years ago. Airbus remains bullish about the role that Cathay's main base will play in the ultra-large aircraft sector, forecasting that Hong Kong will be the largest hub for such aircraft over the next 20 years. The airline is already a customer for the cargo version of the 747-8, with 10 on order, but industry sources say Cathay has no near-term interest in ordering ultra-large passenger widebodies. One option could be to streamline its fleet by adding more 777-300ERs to replace the 747-400s. Cathay already has a large A330-300 and 777-300ER fleet, with Flightglobal's ACAS database showing 32 and 17 aircraft, respectively. Orders for eight A330-300s and 13 777-300ERs (plus six options) are held. Deliveries of the A330s will start at year-end and conclude in 2013, says Cathay, when the last of the firm -300ER orders are also due. I know I run the risk of handing out false hope but I think more DEFOs will be needed sooner rather than later. While much of the focus the past two years has been on cadet recruitment CX has never stopped accepting DEFO applications. Those intersted should submit or update their apps in case the window opens. |
Long term, yes we will need to hopefully hire a ton of pilots. Remember though that if this massive wide body order comes to light there are a few things to consider:
1. Delivery slots will more than likely be a couple or more years away. 2. How many jets are destined to wear the Dragonair (KA) livery. 3. What will the outcome of the SO by pass pay case be. (if the company loses the appeal, they have to assess all 250+ SOs before they can hire a FO). I have heard that the order, if placed, will double the current fleet. FO |
Swire, Haeco Halted on Transaction Statements; Cathay Suspended
Share Business ExchangeTwitterFacebook| Email | Print | A A A By Wendy Leung and Kyunghee Park June 7 (Bloomberg) -- Swire Pacific Ltd. and affiliate Hong Kong Aircraft Engineering Co. halted their shares from trading in the city pending statements related to takeovers and mergers. Cathay Pacific Airways Ltd., an affiliate of Swire and Haeco, also suspended its stock ahead of a “price sensitive” announcement. The Hong Kong-based companies gave no further details in their stock exchange statements today and didn’t say whether the suspensions were related. Cathay Pacific in September agreed to sell a HK$1.9 billion ($244 million) stake in Haeco to Swire, its largest shareholder, boosting cash holdings amid plunging travel demand. The airline still has a 15 percent stake in Haeco, Hong Kong’s largest airplane maintenance provider, while Swire owns 46 percent, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. “There is a possibility that the remaining shares may be sold,” said Kelvin Lau, a Hong Kong-based analyst at Daiwa Institute of Research. “Swire may want Cathay to focus more on the airline business.” Swire owns 42 percent of Cathay Pacific, Hong Kong’s largest airline. Cindy Cheung, a spokeswoman for Swire, and Carolyn Leung, a Cathay spokeswoman, declined to comment. A call to Haeco went unanswered. Swire and Haeco both said they would make announcements “pursuant to the Hong Kong Code on Takeovers and Mergers.” To contact the reporters on this story: Wendy Leung in Hong Kong at [email protected]; Kyunghee Park in Hong Kong at [email protected] Last Updated: June 6, 2010 22:20 EDT |
Originally Posted by 4everFO
(Post 822298)
Long term, yes we will need to hopefully hire a ton of pilots. Remember though that if this massive wide body order comes to light there are a few things to consider:
1. Delivery slots will more than likely be a couple or more years away. 2. How many jets are destined to wear the Dragonair (KA) livery. 3. What will the outcome of the SO by pass pay case be. (if the company loses the appeal, they have to assess all 250+ SOs before they can hire a FO). I have heard that the order, if placed, will double the current fleet. FO In any case, for those in the pool and for prospective DEFOs it's looking more promising now than any time in the last three years. |
Sorry, but I must be over the hill. A Second Officer was a flight engineer when I was one. And in a world where there are no more flight engineers, what kind of job is it that your are being offered? I hate to think someone would actually be recruiting you for an f.e. job, because that is a dead end position nowadays.
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SO=guy that sits there during cruise and makes sure the plane does what it is supposed to do while the Capt or FO are sleeping.
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Aha, thank you. Boy, I have been out of the loop as a 737 driver. We don't even think about such things.
Hmm, a relief pilot. Well, if they are going to pay for you to get a type rating and you just sit on your a#s then what would you be trying to figure out? ...Unless of course it's whether or not you want to live a much shorter life as a long-haul pilot. Just bear in mind that the stats are not in your favor. Long haul pilots suffer from a wide range of health problems, just like fat old truckers do. ...The life is very unhealthy, you are always out of time zone, never get good sleep, eat lots of airline food, don't exercise regularly. Up to you, though. |
Originally Posted by moondriver232
(Post 825177)
Aha, thank you. Boy, I have been out of the loop as a 737 driver. We don't even think about such things.
Hmm, a relief pilot. Well, if they are going to pay for you to get a type rating and you just sit on your a#s then what would you be trying to figure out? ...Unless of course it's whether or not you want to live a much shorter life as a long-haul pilot. Just bear in mind that the stats are not in your favor. Long haul pilots suffer from a wide range of health problems, just like fat old truckers do. ...The life is very unhealthy, you are always out of time zone, never get good sleep, eat lots of airline food, don't exercise regularly. Up to you, though. How healthy your life is, is based on the decisions you make. Our passenger trips are very easy to stay on your home time zone. If you stay away from the ice cream, chocolate cake, and only eat one crew meal per flight your good. When you get to your layover have a social drink, go to bed, go to the gym, and go to work. Stay away from the wings and pizza. Get some rest, dont go chasing LBFMs all night. I flew long haul freight and made some bad decisions about how I ate and what I did. I gained lots of weight and it can be very unhealthy. You just have to be strong about your commitments and whats important. SO's have the best lifestyles in the company. Their job isnt difficult and its a good opportunity to learn. They usually work 8-10 days a month, often in a row and have the rest of the time off. Most of them take advantage of the travel benefits and go all over South East Asia surfing, sailing, or biking. I will say this about short haul, I enjoyed the flying more. However, I am at the point where time off and money is the most important to me and for me long haul is better. |
Any updates on expat hiring for DESO? Or is it still cadets only?
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That page has been up for years....They never took it dowm...So it doesn't mean they will be hiring....But I did see they are looking for Sim Instructors...They had taken that one down 1 year ago.
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Not hiring, never stopped taking applications.
FO |
Hey "Boeing my way"...I tried to PM you but the Admin. stipulates you need 25 or more posts to PM...so hear we go anyway.
I have read many of your posts and was wondering if you wouldnt mind a couple of questions? I just updated my app again with "Sonny" in Recruiting. Talked with him on the phone last week. Said no hiring of DEFOs till late 2011. I was called in 08' but couldnt accept the interview offer at that time...then the economy dropped out. 1. I understand your US based...where and how long have you been with CX? What fleet did you bid on?, what aircraft can you bid as a new hire?1a. With the intergration of all senority and fleets what is typcial upgrade time for a new DEFO starting in 2011? Can you bid or request the frieighters if successful in the hiring process? 2. I understand there is a basic monthly salary- what are the hourly rates for FOs?..is this on top of monthly gaurantees? 3. I understand Cathay has around 100 birds and around 20, 74 Freighters...are they still planning on recieving 10, 74-8s and 11 +(6 options) 74-ERFs in the next couple of yrs? 3. Is retirement 65 now with new contract? 4. Cathay takes out 15% of you pay for retirement...at what interest and where does it go? Banks? Escrow? Bonds? 401k? 5. What is a typical schedule for new hires...what about the Frieghter guys? 6 on 4 off? 6. How do you become an IP (Instructor Pilot)..how do you bid for it and what senority do you need? Thanks again sir...your a big help to "us" guys on the other side of the fence...I owe you a beer ...or sake...whatever is your poison.. :) __________________ Always evaluate the situation.
Originally Posted by BoeingMyWay
(Post 809950)
FlyPurdue
US based CX pilot here. Check your PM's. Be happy to discuss the opportunity with CX. Cheers! |
Hey "Boeing my way"...I tried to PM you but the Admin. stipulates you need 25 or more posts to PM...so hear we go anyway. I have read many of your posts and was wondering if you wouldnt mind a couple of questions? I just updated my app again with "Sonny" in Recruiting. Talked with him on the phone last week. Said no hiring of DEFOs till late 2011. I was called in 08' but couldnt accept the interview offer at that time...then the economy dropped out. 1. I understand your US based...where and how long have you been with CX? What fleet did you bid on?, what aircraft can you bid as a new hire? 1a. With the intergration of all senority and fleets what is typcial upgrade time for a new DEFO starting in 2011? Can you bid or request the frieighters if successful in the hiring process? 2. I understand there is a basic monthly salary- what are the hourly rates for FOs?..is this on top of monthly gaurantees? 3. I understand Cathay has around 100 birds and around 20, 74 Freighters...are they still planning on recieving 10, 74-8s and 11 +(6 options) 74-ERFs in the next couple of yrs? 3. Is retirement 65 now with new contract? 4. Cathay takes out 15% of you pay for retirement...at what interest and where does it go? Banks? Escrow? Bonds? 401k? 5. What is a typical schedule for new hires...what about the Frieghter guys? 6 on 4 off? 6. How do you become an IP (Instructor Pilot)..how do you bid for it and what senority do you need? Good luck. |
Originally Posted by Five Green
(Post 832680)
I'll try to answer some of your questions. One thing to keep in mind is that there are many different sets of "Conditions of Service" (basically individual contracs) that are have been negotiated in the past. In many cases employees where given the option of retaining elements of their current conditions. This has led to a siginifact variety of working agreements depending on longevity and base area. I'll answer your questions as they would relate to a new joiner DEFO in the NAM base area on the CoS established in 2008. I'll save discussion of the HKG expat package for another post.
You don't really bid on fleets at CX. In fact you don't bid for much of anything. Aircraft placement is dependent on manning and base requirements. It is not uncommon to be involuntarily converted (assigned and trained) to a new fleet type while on a base. There are some limited provisions for requesting a one time (in your career) fleet conversion or to bypass a conversion, but those are still at the discretion of the company and unlikely to help you on a base. Unless the company grows rapidly you're looking at some fairly long upgrade times. Ten plus if based in HKG and even longer on a base due to the limited slots. For new joiners there is no more 'freighter only flying'. If the initial conversion of on the 744/-8 then you fly pax and freight at the discretion of the company. In the case of the 744/-8, the type of flying you'll do is somewhat dependent on the base. I think most new DEFOs will be assigned to the 777. The rates on APC are pretty accurate except for year 4, that should read 7766. Ignore the freighter scales as they won't apply to new joiners. The hourly rate is simply your basic monthly salary/84. From this figure is derived additional flight hour pay of 7% or 14% credit depending aircraft manning, additional hourly duty pay based on rank and hours, and overtime which is factored at 1.5 (84-91), 2.5 (92-100), and 3.5 (100+), all based on credit hours. Aircraft orders aren't my strong point but no orders have been cancelled so I believe they remain as previously ordered. Yes. They do not take out 15% as you say. Instead they take the sum of the base pay and all the credits and add 15%. This is CX's retirement contribution. You can elect to take it in cash or have it invested in a CX sponsored retirement scheme. However, note that this is not a IRS recongnized retirement plan and some serious issues regarding taxation remain as to how this income will be treated once the fund is fully vested (10 years). Due to this fact and the limited fund investment and managment options many just elect to take the contribution in cash. This is difficult to answer due to the inherent imbalances throughout the fleets and bases but typically the 777 based pilots have the best schedules, often flying just three 3-day trips a month. Freighter patterns are a bit tougher in that the trips can be 7-10 days long but eventually you'll makeup for it on the back end with a week or more off. Everyone gets 6 weeks of yeary leave (vacation) starting from on dayone. In any case, if you need any recurrent training expect a very long trip due to the rest requirement while in HKG. This is a somewhat ambitious undertaking at CX. I don't know much about the process but I do know it is somewhat political and selection is difficult. Must be a qualified captain and express interest in joining the department. Recently all new Training Captains must be HKG based. Good luck. |
Originally Posted by Ronin47
(Post 832732)
Hello FiveGreen...thank you very much for your time and cander in answering all of my questions. Much appreciated. One question for you if you dont mind? How long have you been with CX and where are you based...are you on reserve..if so how long? Thanks again.
Regarding reserve, like everything else at Cathay this is run differently. Reserve lines or schedules don't exist. Neither is reserve call out based on seniority or any other kind of priority. Reserve is spread out among the entire pilot group, regardless of longevity. Each individual is assigned a few days of reserve, typicaly at the front end of a pattern (trip or pairing). NAM based pilots are normally assigned long call reserve unless they choose to volunteer for short call reserve. In regards to schedules, there are some provisions for requesting specific days off and some lifestyle requests. Aside from that you don't see the rosters until they are published. It's not even a preferential bidding system, you just get what they give you. The only advantage is that the rosters are published early in the month. Hope this helps. Good luck. |
Originally Posted by Ronin47
(Post 832576)
Hey "Boeing my way"...I tried to PM you but the Admin. stipulates you need 25 or more posts to PM...so hear we go anyway.
I have read many of your posts and was wondering if you wouldnt mind a couple of questions? I just updated my app again with "Sonny" in Recruiting. Talked with him on the phone last week. Said no hiring of DEFOs till late 2011. I was called in 08' but couldnt accept the interview offer at that time...then the economy dropped out. 1. I understand your US based...where and how long have you been with CX? What fleet did you bid on?, what aircraft can you bid as a new hire?1a. With the intergration of all senority and fleets what is typcial upgrade time for a new DEFO starting in 2011? Can you bid or request the frieighters if successful in the hiring process? 2. I understand there is a basic monthly salary- what are the hourly rates for FOs?..is this on top of monthly gaurantees? 3. I understand Cathay has around 100 birds and around 20, 74 Freighters...are they still planning on recieving 10, 74-8s and 11 +(6 options) 74-ERFs in the next couple of yrs? 3. Is retirement 65 now with new contract? 4. Cathay takes out 15% of you pay for retirement...at what interest and where does it go? Banks? Escrow? Bonds? 401k? 5. What is a typical schedule for new hires...what about the Frieghter guys? 6 on 4 off? 6. How do you become an IP (Instructor Pilot)..how do you bid for it and what senority do you need? Thanks again sir...your a big help to "us" guys on the other side of the fence...I owe you a beer ...or sake...whatever is your poison.. :) __________________ Always evaluate the situation. There are 40 to 50 DEFO hired and are in the Hold Pool...So if they start hiring late 2011 they will call those guys first....So I think they will start interviewing late 2012 or even 2013.....Than again things could change overnight....I am sure someone with more info will chime in. Good Luck.... |
Originally Posted by Five Green
(Post 832834)
My pleasure Ronin. I'd prefer not to state my base or longevity. There aren't that many flight crew in NAM and we're spread out through several bases so it wouldn't take much to narrow it down to a few people, I'd rather remain completely anonymous.
Regrading reserve, like everything else at Cathay this is run differently. Reserve lines or schedules don't exist. Neither is reserve call out based on seniority or any other kind of priority. Reserve is spread out among the entire pilot group, regardless of longevity. Each individual is assigned a few days of reserve, typicaly at the front end of a pattern (trip or pairing). NAM based pilots are normally assigned long call reserve unless they choose to volunteer for short call reserve. In regards to schedules, there are some provisions for requesting specific days off and some lifestyle requests. Aside from that you don't see the rosters until they are published. It's not even a preferential bidding system, you just get what the give you. The only advantage is that the rosters are published early in the month. Hope this helps. Good luck. |
Originally Posted by uspilot
(Post 832862)
Somthing to think about.
There are 40 to 50 DEFO hired and are in the Hold Pool...So if they start hiring late 2011 they will call those guys first....So I think they will start interviewing late 2012 or even 2013.....Than again things could change overnight....I am sure someone with more info will chime in. Good Luck.... |
Not to mention the 40-50 DESO in the hold file which have the option for re-assessment as DEFO if they meet the mins.
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Originally Posted by Ronin47
(Post 832920)
I did not know that...thanks in advance Uspilot. How many of those guys/gals are still in that pool?? Have they moved on? Who knows I guess eh. Thanks again...good info to know.
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If you're a licensed pilot jaa/faa with 800 hours (me), do you even qualify for the cadet program, or just DESO?
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I agree with everything Five Green says in regards to CX. Of the 5 airlines that I have flown at, CX has the best quality of life and pay. They have always treated me fairly as far as large bureaucracies go. I would strongly recommend employment here but NOT to everyone. You must be adaptable, flexible, and forget everything about how things work at other companies.
I expect an opportunity to upgrade to occur between 10-15 years. However this is an upgrade on a wide body, in that respect its rather fast. A few years before that I will bid back to HKG to do more flying and get "current" since in North America we fly so little. Upgrade isn't easy and requires a lot of work and effort. |
I have a question sort of off topic but on CX..I know very little about working for a foreign carrier so I'm wondering..If at some point in the future I get my 1000 TPIC and get hired there..do I get a type rating that the FAA recognizes?
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You get a Hong Kong ATP and Type rating. I dont think the FAA will just transfer it to your FAA ATP unless you go take a checkride. Also, I dont think there are any expat females working there (if you are as your name implies, a female)
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Originally Posted by DashGirl
(Post 834232)
I have a question sort of off topic but on CX..I know very little about working for a foreign carrier so I'm wondering..If at some point in the future I get my 1000 TPIC and get hired there..do I get a type rating that the FAA recognizes?
There is much to consider before joining a foreign carrier. Your question is a good one. You do not receive a valid B744 FAA Type Rating. Your licenses will be converted to HKCAD standards, you get a HKG CAD medical and all ratings apply only to that license. What a conversion to an FAA Type will require depends on the regional FSDO's interpretation. There is no clear answer for conversion. At the very least it would probably require a checkride to ATP standards administered by an ASI. You get a Hong Kong ATP and Type rating. I dont think the FAA will just transfer it to your FAA ATP unless you go take a checkride. Also, I dont think there are any expat females working there (if you are as your name implies, a female) |
Originally Posted by Five Green
(Post 834413)
There are in fact several expat female pilots working at Cathay and they are very well regarded. Two are captains. |
A question for anybody:
Has any furloughed FAA(non-JAA) certificated pilots successfully gained employment with CX as a second officer? Looking at the hiring mins, Cathay requires 1000 fixed and ATPL writtens completed. Anybody have any knowledge or experience with this? Thanks. |
When I interview few years ago for DEFO we all had over 7000 total time....Few guys were there interviewing for DESO and I think most had 3000 to 5000 total time....a friend of mine who was A320 Capt is now a SO with CX and loves it....
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Yes can someone please explain the Second Officer duty. Do they often upgrade to First Officer and how long does that usually take. Would they hire someone outside the company to fill the FO position over a SO person who has been there longer. Im getting very interested about becoming an SO here. What is the pay? And the only SO duty is being a cruise pilot? Any ohter info would be greatly appreciated! Thank You
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