Cathay Pacific
 

Hi All,

I am new to this forum. I will be graduating from Purdue University in December of this year, and just yesterday was contacted by Cathay Pacific, to interview for a position of Second Officer via the Cadet Pilot route. It appears they will pay for everything, and in 12 months, I will be a second officer on a widebody. Now, before I am told to use the search function, I have. I have looked all over this forum, PPrune's Fragrant Harbor site, and I have exhausted all web resources. Do we have any Cathay Employees on this board? Does anybody know if its really that bad? Currently I have north of 500 hours, and 200 of that is instruction. Right now, It looks like regionals might be an option, but a self made time line has me becoming FO in 5 years, on Cathay. In the very least, I would be building heavy jet, xc time, and getting international experience.

What are your thought?

Thanks!

Very interesting. How did you get the contact? Did they solicit your entire graduating class, screen and contact some of your class, or was this "out of the blue"? Or, do you just know somebody? :)

And, is it Cathay proper, or a recruiting agency?

You'll have to balance the contract terms against what might be a very interesting and valuable experience. I don't know much about CX, but I do know a bit about Asia as well as expat contracts (along with many others on this forum). What you might do is post the terms and conditions quoted (if any) and filter the comments. Hopefully somebody who works for CX will post soon.

Your post stuck out because my oldest boy was graduated from Purdue a couple of years ago. He was smart, though - mechanical engineer. :D

Seriously, I hope this is all that it seems at this point - a terrific opportunity.

I don't work for Cathay, but I know several who do, and I see and meet their pilots as I fly around the world. It's a top-drawer, rigorous & standardized training program, they fly modern, relatively new, all-glass wide-bodies, and they give you the chance to see the world.

Ask yourself why you want to be a pilot. Do you want to sit at the gate in, say, Oklahoma City, look over at your captain while he's eating pilfered instant-oatmeal from the Holiday Inn Express and think, "Woo-hoo! Next stop: Shreveport!!", or do you want to start out on a -400 flying from HKG; wondering if you're going to have schnitzel or rolladen tonight in Frankfurt?

Should you end up disliking it or wanting to move back to West Lafayette, the fact that you made it through their training program, your 747-400 or A340 SIC time, and your considerable international operating experience will be more meaningful to any prospective employer than thousands of hours flying a Saab between Muscle Shoals & Tupelo.

This is a no-brainer: in my mind's eye, there's absolutely no question but to take the position at Cathay.

This is a great opportunity. Take it if it is offered.
Not many airlines offer this chance anymore. I know several CX drivers and they have progessed up the ladder nicely since the early-mid 90's.
I have lived in Asia and loved it. Not sure how basing works at CX anymore, but boeing drivers used to be able to pick from several bases worldwide.
I have also worked for US regionals. Do everything do avoid that path, it's depressing.
Airlines are not the same anymore as you can tell from these forums and CX has not escaped unscathed either, but it is certainly one of the better places left.
Congrats & Best of luck to you!

couldnt agree more with taking this over regionals but ive done a little research and have discovered that potentialy they might want you to instruct at said academy before you go to the airline. something to look into.

Last I heard they were just looking for locals to do the cadet program, I didnt know they were hiring ex-pats again. I had a SO interview scheduled for Oct 2008 but it was canceled 2 weeks prior and all hiring stopped. Apparently, I was to be put in a hiring pool when they resumed.

Thanks all, I applied back around January 1, and did not think I would ever here any thing, then I got an email yesterday, letting me know that I had been selected to go to stage one of the interview 4 stages. Rotorhead, this is the real Cathay, not an outside hiring agency. I have read much negativity regarding the way of life for a SO, but personally I find it exciting, and am willing to make sacrifices to succeed in aviation. They began to hire expatriates such as myself in june of last year.

Word of caution....read the fine print with regards to the Cadet program. I think you give up all housing allowances and maybe schooling allowances as well. Not to familier with the new cadet program, but I understand it has changed alot....and not for the better.

Don't ask questions, just go to Cathay if you get though the interviews. Do yourself a big favor. Study hard and don't you dare worry about when you'll become FO or Captain. You're coming fresh out of college, no wife or kids (I'm assuming) - no brainier. A lot of people a LOT more experienced than you would take it. Consider yourself lucky and BEST OF LUCK!

Just an FYI, Cathay is not a company that you work for to "build experience" and move on. It is a career position. So if your intentions are to build time and leave, don't bother interviewing. Leave room in the company for those who have dreamt of working there their whole lives. Thank you.

Lax

FlyPurdue
US based CX pilot here. Check your PM's. Be happy to discuss the opportunity with CX.
Cheers!

One Hundred Percent Accurate.

Ask yourself this......why has CX always been a premier place to work? Because historically they paid the best and provided the best benefits to LURE THE MOST EXPERIENCED EXPATRIATES TO LIVE AND WORK IN HONG KONG. What CX is doing by opening the cadet program to everyone is a training and recruitment PARADIGM shift.

Remember three years ago, when all the regionals dropped their mins to recruit instead of increasing pay? This is CX's way of doing the same thing.

You may want to live in Hong Kong, one of the most expensive cities on earth without housing allowances. I know 1000+ HK based Cathay pilots that do not. That is why they are there. Not to get widebody time or glass time. It is too make more money than they could at home.

The new cadet program DOES NOT OFFER that. If you think 20-30K in the US is bad, 50-60K USD in Hong Kong is atrocious.

Best of luck. Oh by the way, you may want to go to pprune.org and ask a current SO how fast his three year upgrade is coming. Do not forget, that the upgrades are driven by growth and retirements. CX is growing, albeit, on a snails pace at the moment, and we have just raised the retirement age to 65 from 55 for the majority. It is a relatively young pilot group with plenty of mid 30 year old captains who started as SO's like you may. Except they get housing allowance, school allowance, and so on and so forth.

In all honesty, most CX pilots accept the locals doing this program b/c it is their only way in. But to see expats willing to do it for nothing is cringe worthy. But really who is to blame? You, a motivated young pilot like we all once were? Or a management that is willing to prey on your willingness?

Best of luck.

All, I do not see this as a "career move" and am passionate about this industry and want to find a career i can stay with for the long haul, I apologize, if I came off as a person trying to build time, and then leaving!

You do not need to apologize for anything in regards to your career. If you feel the need to go somewhere if even for two weeks than do it. Only one person in this industry is looking out for you and guess who that is?

Take this opportunity and do not look back. Young, single, just out of college. You are free to suffer the "indignities" of Hong Kong on scraps. Look at it this way. You get to see the world. You fly "heavies." I cannot over-emphasize the importance of that fact. It will instantly make you more competitive for ANY airline job and qualify you for ex-pat contracts if you choose to move on. You made it through Cathay's interview (if you make it.) They are known for having the most technical, thorough, pain in the arse interview anywhere. They also have a very demanding company culture. This is not necessarily a negative, but you will have to be a consummate professional to work for Cathay and everyone knows it.

In contrast, you work for a regional. When the interviews for a major job come up and you are trying to get in on the beginning of a hiring "wave" you will be just like 10,000 other regional pilots. The earliest hires will be those with "big" airplane experience and international experience, those who have proven themselves in the type of operation they are trying to be hired into. If you go regional US, you have not set yourself apart.

Ask everyone you know in the industry how many 25 year olds have "heavy" time they know of. The number is strikingly low.

Cathay is a great career destination in itself. If you change your mind at age 30, 35, 40...then you have a resume that will get you in the door anywhere in the world you wish to fly.

This is a no brainer and if you turn it down I would never mention it again. It would reflect on your judgement and that is a major part of our job.

Sixteen years ago, I was a turboprop captain when I took a job at a major foreign airline as a second officer. It was by far the best decision I ever made in my life. You may find that Hong Kong is not for you, but even the process of interviewing will be invaluable to your career. Start preparing now, and go into the interview with the attitude that you would love to work there. By the end of the process I'm sure that you will know if you'll be happy there. Good Luck!

Most definitely, take the interview. Decide once the job offer has been made.

Best of luck.

Cheers
G.T.W. (CX driver)

I just don't understand airlines.. I have 4500+ hours, 3000+ jet/fms/glass... and this guy gets a call...omfg :mad:

I have been updating my online profile twice a month for nearly a year and not a peep. Best of luck.

**EDIT** just saw it was a SO position. my rant was about a FO position

Hang in there and keep updating. Cathay sees new opportunities on the horizon and another quick bit of growth is inevitable. Based on their history and I what I'm seeing now I would say DEFO hiring will commence within a year. We are overstaffed on some fleets right now but that's nothing that a net gain of 2-3 aircraft can't cure. Aircraft are operating at high load factors and yields are through the roof. I see good times ahead.

Good luck

just don't understand airlines.. I have 4500+ hours, 3000+ jet/fms/glass... and this guy gets a call...omfg :mad:

I have been updating my online profile twice a month for nearly a year and not a peep. Best of luck.


You do not worry about it that much, I was also succ at Cathay Pacific, but because, my mum is aviation doctor she told me I need to wait a little bit. You know what, there is a huge difference between an expat and a permanent base. Then after all, I decided to fly occasionally with my capt brother due to a small minimal health defect, I can fly but again I would need really really really trying my best all the time. You must contact someone directly. Some people by the way are sticky at this blog, someone knew someone and I already had pulled a person to our European Union cockpit with an interview and training and etc,,, why would I remember it why is a person asking for it? But, I was younger. It is not a time to look back at all sometimes it is this way . I can fly occasionally shall see further on, sometimes I do not understand many things. You know what I think really, really, that people make the problems on their own.Now I wish to hear about F 14 and 16 stories. DO not worry Melu

With 500 hours total and already having instructor experience you might be a candidate for the expat instructor program (hired then seconded to ADL to instruct cadets with a CX seniority number for a set amount of time). If this is the route that CX offers then you will be given housing assistance in HKG as an SO. If this is a straight cadet entry pilot (SO) position then you will be living off your very small SO paycheck in the world's most, arguably, expensive city. If you are single then you can get a flop house sort of place with other SOs as a place to hang between trips and vacations around the world, but that life style can get old quickly.

Something to keep in mind as well is that SO time at CX is with a P2X rating. It is basically a rating concocted by CX with the help of HKCAD that will keep SOs at CX because the rating doesn't allow you to even log P2/SIC time in the jet. You can only log P2X time. Now, some airlines throughout the world might take the widebody time as SIC time if you log it that way. Remember too that your "flying" as an SO will consist of doing cruise paperwork and radio work while the captain or relief FO spins the heading bug.

Bottom line, if you wind up in HKG as a SO as a youngster without housing allowance, you can do your time as an SO take your upgrade to FO and then try and get a basing back in the US where your package will be identical to every other pilot in the same rank in the US. On the other hand, the HK Aircrew Officer Assoc (HKAOA), the in house union, are currently trying to up the package for cadet entry pilots. If that happens in the future then you are laughing as you have just gotten into CX in your low 20s and will be a widebody captain by 35 (historically speaking).

Go in with your eyes wide open

-400 FO

4everfo what is the upgrade time to F/O from S/O at the moment?? Also F/O to Captain, thanks.

SO to Junior FO is almost 4 years and increasing everyday. Senior most SO was hired in the summer (August I think) of 2006. The company has just announced a updated plan to upgrade 42 SOs to FO by the end of the year. Old plan called for 0. SO it may come down a bit but plan on 4 years.

FO to CN is tougher to tell. I will say that the junior most passenger CN in HKG is just over 900 on the seniority list out of approx. 2450 total pilots. There are alot of freighter only CNs junior to that but there aren't going to be anymore freighter "out of seniority upgrades". I believe when we were going full tilt on the expansion side we were upgrading around 75-100 passenger CNs per year...none this year though.

all subject to change as soon as this message is posted.

FO

Hi!

What's happening to the poolies? I know 2 of them...

cliff
LFW

Definitely take the opportunity to interview and see if CX is a fit. I interviewed in Aug. 08 for a DESO and have been sitting in the hold file ever since. Little frustrating watching Cadet pilots continued to be hired while I'm waiting until 2012 for Direct Entry recruitment to start again. Probably won't even be a DESO program in 2012, and I don't blame them if they can find enough pilots to fill the cadet slots.

I hear rumors that the DESO poolies can be reassessed as DEFO's if they are competitive. So I guess thats something to look forward to.

What is it with guys saying commands were not in seniority order? Anyone in seniority order could have bid those positions. They chose not to for personal reasons, most likely being the fact that it was grossly underpaid and would result in a pay cut for most FO's. The only thing that has changed is that now we just have captains on one scale. That, theoretically should have more 'senior' guys bid the left seat. Wake up CX pilots. Upgrades have always been 'in order'. Most everyone though chose not to bid it. Guys with 1, 2, 3 yrs did.

So, can you still come to the company as an FO?

I'm filling out the app for the cadet pilot program, any advice on the proper way to fill it out so I can get a call? This is where I want to end up at anyways.

I think we will have to start hiring within a year as well. We are short on the NAM 744, especially relief. My last two crossings have been with SOs. They are working my arse off lately. I spoke to recruiting and they have not fully decided how they are going to handle the guys sitting on hired letters. They did say that they will have to come back to HKG for a new medical exam and possibly a short interview.

Hopefully it is all looking up.

This is a no brainer!!! DO IT!!!

You are not at the decision making stage just yet, you have only been invited to an interview and since you have read the different threads on CX you are well aware that the interview failure rate is pretty high. Now if you do get an offer, then you examine all the aspects of employment with CX because there is a lot more than just the"shiny new heavy jets" remember that this job will come with company culture, life in HK, ex pat life style etc. all this things will weigh very heavy if you are not happy and at 500TT you are at the crawling stage in your career so don't feel like you should jump to the running stage just yet. Interview first, go spend a few days in HK and try getting a sense of what is really like living and working there, seek the CX guys out and try to get the good, bad and the ugly. The Aviator's in Tung Chung is a good place to get some info, it is a popular watering whole to hear the long haul blues.

Good luck to you, you got a long career ahead of you so try to make decisions based on passion and information, rather than passion alone.

This is OUTSTANDING advice...take it to heart.

My first flying assignment in the Navy was 3 1/2 years of flying out of Japan. It was an amazing experience.. but at the end I came home. CX will be a career job which may mean a lifetime in HK.. The previous posts are correct.. weigh it heavily... I think you should go for it personally, but with eyes wide open.

Not to change the subject , but for those considering the sand pit, THE DOMINICAN's advice is very good,"same same but different"

Hence the sarcastic quotes.

FO

Ya and there is about 200 people in the pool waiting for a call for an FO position, and some of us would gladly take an SO position. but instead they are going to hire 500hr people.
I just dont get that sh**

Good luck anyway.

What don't you understand? The cadets are cheaper than the direct entry pilots....no housing, education, or repatriation costs. Airline management is the same almost everywhere...bottom line is the most important thing. Plus it is almost 2 years from starting the cadet course to being checked to the line as an SO. Oh yeah, most of the cadets have 0 flight time.

I have heard recently that all of the pilots that were successful in the interview process but did not start with CX will have to be re-assessed. Don't know if that means another full process or something shorter.

FO

Hi!

So, guys who were "hired" and in the pool, are no longer? The pool is drained, and they will have to be re-assessed???

Thanx!

cliff
LFW

With airlines, CX, what exactly does "repatriation" or "expatriate" mean? I know the true definition, but what does this have to do with working for CX?

I am in the pool (FO) and been told that when and if the time comes we MAY have to be reassessed. No more info than that.