When in the history of commercial aviation have pilots ever united as a group to show solidarity for one another with an industry wide strike or slow down for that matter. With that being said what’s the impetus for the pilots of any carrier to align themselves with cabin crew?

In my 30 plus years in commercial aviation, never have I seen a group of people abused, overworked, and underpaid, as your basic cabin crew. At the end of the day when you add up their pay, and compare it to the hours worked, it’s less than minimum wage. But then that’s the choice they make. At the end of the day… is anyone holding a gun to their heads to remain in that profession? And the same applies to your basic complaining pilot who is equally responsible for the decline of pay and benefits as well as terms and conditions.

 

Geeze, I thought I'd get a whole lot more comment on that last one. You guy's are slipping.

Sorry Ziggy, I still disagree. I understand that one can bring a pilot on quickly who has at least a multi IFR and a commercial. Heck, every conversion course I've had has been four weeks at best. But getting to the MIFR com stage alone takes a few years at best. Not such for cabin crew, it's not the same thing. Thankfully the US congress is looking into stopping low timers sitting in the right seat of jets. As far as me being replacable at the moment, well, you haven't seen the current market I guess. Contracts for B744 drivers have gone up twice in the last two months mate, and even though the low cost carriers are low cost, they pay pretty well for qualified pilots. I'm not talking certified, I'm talking qualified, and those my friend are two different thing's.

Look, I hope this all get's sorted out, I really do. And for the best of everybody too. I just think that at this particular juncture a strike by anyone at BA, and to be fair that would include the flight (deck) crew, is just plain stupid, and I don't like stupidity putting me or any of my compadres out of work for no good reason. Willy Walsh, well, he kind of get's to be a bit stupid due to his position. Bugger, but that's what we have to deal with.

 

Interesting thread so far. I won't say a mouthful this time, but a vague similarity to past events stands out to me. Some years ago major airline pilots decided that regional guys were beneath them. They hadn't paid the same dues, they were less qualified and they had less responsibility. Sounds familiar? We know how well that worked out for us all, huh?

I have no doubt that if management breaks one union, they will target another in quick succession. Additionally, IMO, this could be an opportunity for the pilots to fight a proxy battle.

Good job of keeping it respectful so far as we are all just voicing opinions on this.

 

Good long post earlier Koru. I havent seen much of the expat flying world yet, but it sure doesnt seem, and feel like that in the U.S. Ask a bunch of regional guys about their self-worth and they will tell you they are just a glorified bus driver. Its gotten to the point that some pilots dont even believe they are worth more then that. And when pilots lose self respect for themselves and what they do, why should anybody else care, or think we deserve better. Like I said I am just speaking from what I have seen in the U.S flying in the regionals.... where a regional job is no longer a stepping stone, unfortunently.

 

Ok, so feel sorry for the BA Cabin Crew on an average of £31,000 or about $48,000 pa, with the 20 year seniors on about $100,000.

 

You do not support their efforts?

 

I just think that at this particular juncture a strike by anyone at BA, and to be fair that would include the flight (deck) crew, is just plain stupid, and I don't like stupidity putting me or any of my compadres out of work for no good reason.

Yes, Koru you are right you think the same way as my mum aviation doctor. In two months I will be at a castle in EU and shall get to a cockpit again occasionally flying is enough for me. Absolutely you are right a cabin crew has nothing to do with a cockpit at all.So for what to join the strikes, if absolutely they are not giving any positive results. My uncle is a retired BA pilot and he said the same what you said.We talk in our language. Must place a picture of my plane will make new ones at a castle. So mentioning the solidarity in aviation here is a little bit too far told. Still till next month got a mourn. Melu

 

Their efforts to do what?

I support the right of any union to try to achieve the best terms and conditions for their members.

I do not support a union which refuses to negotiate for over a year, lies repeatedly to its members, casts aspersions at their pilot colleagues, refuses to acknowledge the economic woes, etc etc.

The company offered a way out as working a little harder with 1 fewer crew member on B747's for example, no pay cuts (indeed still incremental payrises for the majority of about 5% pa).

So NO I don't support their efforts and neither does the vast majority of a highly unionised BA workforce, including many in the same parent union (Unite), who themselves have trained up as volunteer cabin crew to continue flying our passengers.

 

You do not support their efforts?
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I think that you do not know much about our European way of thinking and a meaning of a " support ". What efforts? Their efforts has nothing to do with a cockpit. So, if the cockpit is not striking why would the others strike?? A strike that is fruitless. Each of the person has a choice in the aviation field, in Europe the womens are not that commonly seen as pilots then in your place that is for sure so if strongly interested are becoming a part of the airlines industry , but on different positions. Or like me are pilots that fly occasionally with the family members. No one is stupid here.So, if a cockpit is not striking it means there is no further reason to strike at all. Well would you support any strike that would not allow you to perform your duties? Of course not, since you must bring your salary home for your family at a hard time of the crisis going on in your country. European way is a flexible one like a settler thinking honestly speaking Europe is always helping others, yes I asked my brother's main company to take not one US contractor but more maybe much more... for further consideration, till now I do not know at all was it all needed, and must tell you one thing I do not like people with a certain thinking like in US it is better for flying or whatever then in Europe- if one feels bad in Europe really the doors are always open.... to live.....Like Apparently, we Europeans do not know about our bases and a situation. You must support your efforts, and do not bother yourself with the things you do not have any influence at or off. Certainly you would not support the efforts since it is not considered to be in your interest. So, if your duties are being disturbed you would not be happy would you? You just need to support yourself at work it is the best way. Melu

 

I don't recognize you as someone who has the experience in this business to be preaching to anyone about "unions and strikes" I've been in the trenches and I have had the rug pulled from under me too many times, sorry if it stings a little but I believe is for your own growth. BTW your English is improving a bit, I can understand about 60% now