UND_jesse

im a Canadian and American citizen currently living in Canada. I am planning on going to the University of North Dakota for my eduacation. I am unsure of where to fly... Canada or the States. Where do you APC forum users think is the best place to fly? How do Air Canada and Westjet rank among airlines in the states?

flystraightin

I don't fly for anyone, but I'm basically in your situation and have done what you're doing right now.

If you choose AC, you obviously have more flexibility with respect to equipment. For the 320, you'll fly a US leg pretty much at least once a day. A typical line for YYZ based pilot would be:

Day 1:
YYZ-JFK
JFK-YYZ
YYZ-YYJ

Day 2:
YYJ-YVR
YVR-SFO
SFO-YUL

Day 3:
YUL-YYZ
YYZ-DCA
DCA-YYZ

For WS, you're on the 737 (not bad at all) and you do mostly Canadian stuff. You'll get to go to Hawaii maybe twice a year...and the US a little more frequent, but not as much as AC. I found that WS's lines are a little more regional-like (if that makes sense)...its YYC-YVR-YYC all day, with a few variations. WS is good (for jr. guys) in that there is no seniority and pay is good, but there is a long upgrade time.

WS definitely seems more 'alive' with the whole culture thing, however AC is more of a traditional legacy carrier.

As for the states, it's a whole different ball game. Regionals are far easier to get to, compared to Jazz, like you mentioned. The most junior guy at Jazz recently was a YYZ DHC8 FO with 4000+ hours. I would assume Skywest's junior would be around 2000.

I think if you have dual citizenship like me, I'd train in either Canada or the US, it doesnt matter, the licences can be converted easily. Then go to the states to build time. You can get into bigger turbine jets, faster than in Canada. In Canada, you'll be stuck on a Beaver in the Artic or a Navajo in 704 charter ops. CFI time in Canada is less regarded compared to the US. You could never go from instructor to Jazz in Canada, whereas you can go from CFI or CFII to Colgan, AE, Skywest or Horizon in the US.

Once you get past the American regional or Canadian bush/charter work, its pretty much the same. Obviously, there are more large US airports that you would get to fly to more often as a pilot for a US carrier, and you may have to deal with deicing a little more in Canada (no more than in Chicago or Boston) but overall I would consider them equal. The business aspect is one of the biggest differences, the industry is different. In Canada you have 2 major carriers, in the US, there are 10 or more. Aside from Air Canada, I think you see more bankrupcy in the US, but thats probably just because they have more airlines.

To answer your original question, how does AC and WS rank compared to US airlines?

They are highly comparable. AC to Canada is as American is to the US. WS to Canada is as Southwest is to the US. It all comes down to location and options. Equipment is the same and benefits will vary from company to company. You have the best of both worlds (ability to work in either country) and the most options.

Also, keep in mind, Canada doesnt have Jack in the Box, but the US doesnt have Tim Hortons....so its a trade off..and very big decision.

KoruPilot

Well done flystraightin, good home work. I don't know if this is up your alley, but Kelowna Flightcraft hires reasonably low time (1500+hours with ATPL) and they start you in the back seat of the 727. It might not sound all that flash but it's a very nice way to step into big planes. I'd been freezing my but off in piston twins for a few years before I went to KFC so the 727 was a nice change (didn't have to share a hotel room either). I moved to the 580 in short order, others went to the 727 right seat in just about a year, which is not bad for that kind of experience. Their pay is OK as well, as in it's liveable if you are YVR, YYC or YHM based. They have a couple NG's now as well, and quite a few of their pilots have ended up at WJ.

Anyway, just my two cents to add if you are looking at getting into something bigger withour having to slug it out in the Arctic. Your post is spot on, excellent, just thought I'd mention another option as far as companies are concerned.

grandpa

I would move to Canada for Tim Hortons. I love their ice caps. Those Timbits aren't too bad either. You've got me hungry just thinking about it.

vagabond

grandpa, I'm going with you! Tim Horton's is a to-die-for establishment. Good thing I live so close to YVR.

captjns

Hey guys... even us guys from the lower 48 love Tim Hortons. I used to go the one in Dayton and in Calgary on layovers. Great Broccoli soup, french crullers, and coffee. Man... do I miss flying cargo.

KoruPilot

OK, it's decided then. Timys is all over Canada and we love the crullers, so Canada it is. Man, that wasn't so difficult.

(they used to have a Tims inside the corporate hangar at YHM that was open all night. . .for the freight crews I assume)

vagabond

grandpa, flystaightin, captjns and korupilot,

Let's meet at the Tim Horton's in downtown Vancouver, BC on November 15, 2006 at 11 am. I'll be standing outside holding a bag of chocolate Timbits.

grandpa

How is out there in Vancouver? I've only been to Toronto and the areas surrounding it, I was pretty impressed. I really like Canada, and not just the Tim Hortons. Canadians come off as a lot nicer than the New Yorkers i'm used to. I think i've still got a Loonie or a Toonie and some colorfull money lying around.

vagabond

I am in Seattle, not Vancouver. I know that HSLD will ban me for this, but I'd really want to have a "reunion" of all Timbit lovers one day. We could meet in the middle of Canada, like in Calgary or something. Just like calcapt was the founder of a posse on this here forum, grandpa, you can be our leader. Follow the Timbits!

PS: My abject apologies, HSLD. Delete this post if you think it is in violation of the rules.