CX's 34 Hour Layover Ordeal
04-11-2014, 09:40 AM
#1
Administrator
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: C-172
Posts: 8,024
CX's 34 Hour Layover Ordeal
A Cathay Pacific flight from New York City to Hong Kong turned into a 34-hour ordeal that included a 15-hour unscheduled layover in Zhuhai, China, NBC News reports.
Severe weather, restrictions on how many hours pilots can work and government policies kept 256 passengers trapped on the plane in China, according to NBC. Cathay Pacific Flight CX831 departed New York's JFK International Airport on the afternoon of March 29 for what was supposed to be a 16-hour flight to Hong Kong.
The plane was making its approach into Hong Kong during a lightning and hail storm. It was diverted to Zhuhai, NBC reports.
Once it landed there, passengers and crew were forced to stay on the Boeing 777 on orders by Chinese leaders in charge of immigration and customs at the airport, Cathay Pacific told NBC.
At the same time, pilots and crew were required to rest by law. Cathay Pacific sent a replacement crew from Hong Kong to Zhuhai, but even they ran into obstacles when Chinese authorities would not allow them to fly into the city. Instead, they had to take a ferry from Hong Kong to Macau then drive an hour to the city, according to NBC.
"When I heard about this I immediately felt sympathy for the passengers and the crew," Julie Jarratt, a spokesperson for Cathay Pacific, told NBC.
"This was certainly a rare circumstance and one we want to avoid if at all possible."
The flight finally departed Hong Kong at 1:08 p.m. on March 31 and arrived an hour later. Cathay Pacific compensated passenger with about $322 each.
"This flight was definitely not a good representation of what Cathay Pacific wants to happen on its flights," Jarratt told NBC.
Severe weather, restrictions on how many hours pilots can work and government policies kept 256 passengers trapped on the plane in China, according to NBC. Cathay Pacific Flight CX831 departed New York's JFK International Airport on the afternoon of March 29 for what was supposed to be a 16-hour flight to Hong Kong.
The plane was making its approach into Hong Kong during a lightning and hail storm. It was diverted to Zhuhai, NBC reports.
Once it landed there, passengers and crew were forced to stay on the Boeing 777 on orders by Chinese leaders in charge of immigration and customs at the airport, Cathay Pacific told NBC.
At the same time, pilots and crew were required to rest by law. Cathay Pacific sent a replacement crew from Hong Kong to Zhuhai, but even they ran into obstacles when Chinese authorities would not allow them to fly into the city. Instead, they had to take a ferry from Hong Kong to Macau then drive an hour to the city, according to NBC.
"When I heard about this I immediately felt sympathy for the passengers and the crew," Julie Jarratt, a spokesperson for Cathay Pacific, told NBC.
"This was certainly a rare circumstance and one we want to avoid if at all possible."
The flight finally departed Hong Kong at 1:08 p.m. on March 31 and arrived an hour later. Cathay Pacific compensated passenger with about $322 each.
"This flight was definitely not a good representation of what Cathay Pacific wants to happen on its flights," Jarratt told NBC.
04-11-2014, 09:56 AM
#2
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: 737 NG CAPT.
Posts: 216
I was based in Macau for several years and we were always told mainland China was not available as an alternate. We always had to use Hong Kong or any of the Taiwan airports. Macau would have been a better option but also possible it had the weather impacting it as well. The last choice should have been mainland China. I am sure Cathay will reevaluate its diversion policy.
04-11-2014, 04:42 PM
#5
Nice lookin' tree, there!
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: MD-11, old man
Posts: 2,198
Originally Posted by vagabond
A Cathay Pacific flight from New York City to Hong Kong turned into a 34-hour ordeal that included a 15-hour unscheduled layover in Zhuhai, China, NBC News reports.
Severe weather, restrictions on how many hours pilots can work and government policies kept 256 passengers trapped on the plane in China, according to NBC. Cathay Pacific Flight CX831 departed New York's JFK International Airport on the afternoon of March 29 for what was supposed to be a 16-hour flight to Hong Kong.
The plane was making its approach into Hong Kong during a lightning and hail storm. It was diverted to Zhuhai, NBC reports.
Once it landed there, passengers and crew were forced to stay on the Boeing 777 on orders by Chinese leaders in charge of immigration and customs at the airport, Cathay Pacific told NBC.
At the same time, pilots and crew were required to rest by law. Cathay Pacific sent a replacement crew from Hong Kong to Zhuhai, but even they ran into obstacles when Chinese authorities would not allow them to fly into the city. Instead, they had to take a ferry from Hong Kong to Macau then drive an hour to the city, according to NBC.
"When I heard about this I immediately felt sympathy for the passengers and the crew," Julie Jarratt, a spokesperson for Cathay Pacific, told NBC.
"This was certainly a rare circumstance and one we want to avoid if at all possible."
The flight finally departed Hong Kong at 1:08 p.m. on March 31 and arrived an hour later. Cathay Pacific compensated passenger with about $322 each.
"This flight was definitely not a good representation of what Cathay Pacific wants to happen on its flights," Jarratt told NBC.
Severe weather, restrictions on how many hours pilots can work and government policies kept 256 passengers trapped on the plane in China, according to NBC. Cathay Pacific Flight CX831 departed New York's JFK International Airport on the afternoon of March 29 for what was supposed to be a 16-hour flight to Hong Kong.
The plane was making its approach into Hong Kong during a lightning and hail storm. It was diverted to Zhuhai, NBC reports.
Once it landed there, passengers and crew were forced to stay on the Boeing 777 on orders by Chinese leaders in charge of immigration and customs at the airport, Cathay Pacific told NBC.
At the same time, pilots and crew were required to rest by law. Cathay Pacific sent a replacement crew from Hong Kong to Zhuhai, but even they ran into obstacles when Chinese authorities would not allow them to fly into the city. Instead, they had to take a ferry from Hong Kong to Macau then drive an hour to the city, according to NBC.
"When I heard about this I immediately felt sympathy for the passengers and the crew," Julie Jarratt, a spokesperson for Cathay Pacific, told NBC.
"This was certainly a rare circumstance and one we want to avoid if at all possible."
The flight finally departed Hong Kong at 1:08 p.m. on March 31 and arrived an hour later. Cathay Pacific compensated passenger with about $322 each.
"This flight was definitely not a good representation of what Cathay Pacific wants to happen on its flights," Jarratt told NBC.
04-14-2014, 09:30 PM
#6
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: 777-300ER Right
Posts: 72
True enough, Frozen. When the forecast is good, Macau is used as the alternate. This is, in theory, adequate - Hong Kong has two independent runways, so in good conditions, the second runway essentially counts as another airport. The fuel to Macau on the flight plan is also substantially greater than the fuel required. It's going missed to the east, and a long, drawn out path around the far side of Macau, and landing on 16. In reality, it's a vector or two to the west, to intercept the loc for 34.
When the forecast is poor, Kaohsiung/Taipei/Guangzhou/Manilla etc are loaded on.
When the forecast is typhoons and such like, the alternates are even further afield, Bangkok, for example.
The first issue with this flight, was that the forecast was way off. TAFs indicated (at time of departure) VMC at HKG. That changed, very quickly, and very severely.
I don't recall where their filed alternate was, but in all likelihood it was the fair weather alternate (Macau).
When HKG weather goes pear-shaped, the local alternates fill up extremely quickly. Many only have one runway. Due to the unexpected change in HKG weather, they all filled up very quickly, and were unable to accept further diversions. Mainland China's international airports weren't accepting diversions from HKG. Again, due to the forecast, most long haul flights inbound would have been given a non-mainland alternate anyhow.
Given the complete lack of options presented to this crew, I'd say it was job well done. Something of a nightmare, however, for the passengers and crew after landing. The problem was a lack of immigration control, more than anything. Everyone had to stay on board.
It is alarming, however, to see the Mainland authorities and controllers breach ICAO protocols regarding diversions. Not necessarily on this occasion, but they have been known, on numerous occasions, to deny filed diversions to their airports. Even more alarmingly, the've done so to aircraft declaring fuel emergencies. That is the bigger problem in all of this.
The crew should have been able to have CX OPS arrange a PEK/XMN diversion, if the Mainland weren't so difficult. They frequently do it, but of course, you need to be able to rely on it when the chips are down.
CX fuel policy is very sensible, as it happens, and fuel policy wasn't a causal factor in this. The crew are also very experienced with the options/weather/operations in the area. If you're not familiar with it, it can be very challenging, to say the least.. This was unfortunately a combination of a duff TAF and the Chinese shouting 'CANNOT'.
Something does need to be done, however, regarding the denial of diversions to FILED alternates. That doesn't necessarily relate to this flight, just an ongoing problem.
When the forecast is poor, Kaohsiung/Taipei/Guangzhou/Manilla etc are loaded on.
When the forecast is typhoons and such like, the alternates are even further afield, Bangkok, for example.
The first issue with this flight, was that the forecast was way off. TAFs indicated (at time of departure) VMC at HKG. That changed, very quickly, and very severely.
I don't recall where their filed alternate was, but in all likelihood it was the fair weather alternate (Macau).
When HKG weather goes pear-shaped, the local alternates fill up extremely quickly. Many only have one runway. Due to the unexpected change in HKG weather, they all filled up very quickly, and were unable to accept further diversions. Mainland China's international airports weren't accepting diversions from HKG. Again, due to the forecast, most long haul flights inbound would have been given a non-mainland alternate anyhow.
Given the complete lack of options presented to this crew, I'd say it was job well done. Something of a nightmare, however, for the passengers and crew after landing. The problem was a lack of immigration control, more than anything. Everyone had to stay on board.
It is alarming, however, to see the Mainland authorities and controllers breach ICAO protocols regarding diversions. Not necessarily on this occasion, but they have been known, on numerous occasions, to deny filed diversions to their airports. Even more alarmingly, the've done so to aircraft declaring fuel emergencies. That is the bigger problem in all of this.
The crew should have been able to have CX OPS arrange a PEK/XMN diversion, if the Mainland weren't so difficult. They frequently do it, but of course, you need to be able to rely on it when the chips are down.
CX fuel policy is very sensible, as it happens, and fuel policy wasn't a causal factor in this. The crew are also very experienced with the options/weather/operations in the area. If you're not familiar with it, it can be very challenging, to say the least.. This was unfortunately a combination of a duff TAF and the Chinese shouting 'CANNOT'.
Something does need to be done, however, regarding the denial of diversions to FILED alternates. That doesn't necessarily relate to this flight, just an ongoing problem.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
