Iron Maiden

Since I'm about to be single again, I'm going to apply for the Hong Kong Airlines A320 Non-Typed F/O job, I have some questions on how to fill out the sections in the picture below. I don't understand the P1/P2 info. Maybe I can put in my SIC time in the P2 time? As far as the knowledge areas, can I put in the date of my ATP written?

Kenny

IM,

Yep, P1 is the same as PIC. P2 is the equivalent to SIC and P1/US is when you're logging PIC but "under supervision". In other words dual received.

I fly in that part of the world, now and have quite a few friends at Asian carriers or based in Hong Kong. If you need any other info, feel free to PM me.

Good luck.

GreenTailWhale

A bit of a correction, in Hong Kong under CAD rules, p1 u/s is logged when a FO is P1 (pic) type rated, and is operating as the PF (pilot flying). Time spent as RQ, or Relief Command, is also logged as p1 u/s. You can't log p1 u/s if you are not p1 rated.

Iron Maiden

Thanks for the info. really appreciate it. For the -145 because I'm PIC rated but haven't upgraded yet, I can sum up all the legs I've flown and that total will go under the P1 (U/S) and flight time in my last 2 airplanes will go under the P2 since my type in those is limited to SIC privileges? Thanks for the clarification. I'll put in the date of my ATP written for the knowledge areas.

GreenTailWhale

If you are p1 rated, yes, right seat flight time as PF can be logged as p1 u/s if you keep your p1 rating current.

flapshalfspeed

With the FAA certification changes for 121 operators last July (2013), airlines had to start "type rating" all FOs on aircraft. While a typical ERJ/CRJ FO in the USA is now type rated on their license (with no more "SIC-only" limitations), they are not actually qualified to act as PIC or fly as PIC on type on any revenue flights conducted under part 121. They have not completed IOE, landings in the actual aircraft as PIC, or completed their "Fed Ride" with the FAA or company APD.

On the other hand, when staffing requires it, it is common for US airlines to utilize PIC typed AND qualified Captains in the right seat. And many corporate operators use two typed and qualified Captains for insurance discounts, safety, etc. (i.e. a 2 Captain crew).

I am not sure how the HK authorities would interpret this, or if your interpretation is correct.

In my humble opinion for US 121 airline time, I would convert as follows:

1) P1 = PIC time when you are typed AND qualified by the operator/FAA to operate as PIC

2) P1 U/S = your Captain IOE, subsequent to passing upgrade training/checkride in the operator's approved upgrade training program; additionally, and part 91 flights where you were PF as an FO (since part 91 only requires the PIC type rating--not operator-specific upgrade training).

3) P2 = any 121 time where you are FO, regardless of whether you are PF or PNF, since you are not qualified to act as PIC on any 121 flights without completing upgrade training through your airline.

This is interesting stuff and I'd like to hear your response.

joepilot

How does this work for long range flights (over 12 hours non-stop) where there is one Captain rated pilot and three type rated F/Os?

I know that the Captain is still PIC even in the bunk, and none of the F/Os have had the Captain IOE, but I believe that, according to US rules whichever type rated F/O is pilot flying while the Captain is in the bunk is allowed to log PIC for that time.

I am trying to reconcile that with China rules.

Joe

GreenTailWhale

What I wrote is not an interpretation. It is out of a HKG registered airlines ops manual (not Hong Kong Airlines). But I would agree that per the FAA, FOs log SIC. If you want to hear it from the source, call the HKCAD and speak with an inspector and verify what I wrote. The number is listed on the website. I will say, everything I wrote is based on a HKCAD license...not an FAA.

GreenTailWhale

Relief Command time, even if a fully qualified Captain...is counted as p1 u/s. Only the designated Commander may log p1. This goes for HKG/China. Not FAA.

GreenTailWhale

Ultimately, it's a difficult decision...as you don't currently have a HKCAD ATPL. Your absolute safest bet, is to call the HKCAD. You can't fail with that plan of action. Good luck with Hk airlines/express. Hong Kong is a GREAT place to spend a few years partying, especially as a single person. Just make sure you buy a air purifier. And avoid living in Tung Chung, Central all the way!