When you retire, would you please come to NetJets with a few of your peers that think like you and run for union leadership positions.

Wow that’s really bad. What’s the actual behind the door at the hotel 8 1/2 to 9 hours? A day or two on a long tour is one thing but day after day for 7 to 15 days, fatigue is cumulative. You can’t magically fall asleep when you close the hotel room door. You need to
unwind before you sleep and even after you wake up, and xcsrcise decompress etc. That’s got to take a severe toll
long term, especially for a 20 or more year career.

I’d much rather deal with circadian rhythm issues with long haul flying. Considering bunks on the plane and long layovers to catch up on sleep.

The reason I said 14 hours is that what I was told by a friend who is a new hire at XO (only been on line about 6 months) flying the Citation X. I was just speaking to a friend who flies for a bottom feeder 135 operator that pretends to act like a fractional with 8 on 6 off. He told me they average 10 hour overnights. This pilot is leaving for Republic..

Been there and done that. 20 years union work, organizing, strike prep
and a rep.

in all seriousness keep finding the best and brightest and ask them to step up. If they won’t step up find a way to get them to step up. Keep bringing in new blood. Educate the new hires, stay unified and keep fighting. If you have weak leadership, or in there positions to long and or are to comfortable then vote them out.

Even if your leadership isn’t perfect your still light years ahead of all the non union - fractionals. Sure there is a pilot shortage now and it appears so for the foreseeable future. Things change and black swan events happen. Two years ago how many pilot furloughs were projected.

Inflation, recession something catastrophic to the fractional market. Watch these nonunion fractionals change pay and working conditions overnight.

Agree with everything you wrote. Unfortunately, our leadership is entrenched and through election bylaws they pushed through about five years ago, insulated from an electoral challenge.

Wow I had no idea a senior widebody captain has good pay and QOL.

Yes, for the most part international long haul widebody flying is very productive. Pre covid mostly Asia, India or the Middle East on the 777 for UAL in EWR. Asia and Europe, Middle east in SFO. IAH mostly South America, Hawaii and Europe. DC - Europe, Middle East and some Asia. Mostly 28 to 32 hour four day trips, some 18 to 23 hour 3 day trips. Also some less productive domestic (hub to hub or Transcon) and Europe mixed in too. So it only takes about 10 - 12 days of flying in a non vacation month to fly a normal 75 to 85 hour month if your aiming for max days off if your getting mostly long haul trips. Obviously less days off if you choice to maximize pay.

Remember most widebody line holders have north of 11 years so they get 5 or 6 weeks of vacation per year. You can get awarded more then one week in a month but many like myself try to get a many months with one week of vacation. So you can turn that into more days off or more pay, individuals choice.

Obviously China is still shut down. But we are starting some Asia long haul out of EWR & SFO. An though Europe isn’t that productive (mostly 757/767) some of what we are doing now on the 777 is W flying. Example EWR - London - SFO - London - EWR. That’s more productive then traditional European flying. More Asia cities are possible if China stays locked down.

I was somewhat skeptical before trying long haul, as to how difficult it would be for me. In actuality I’m far less fatigued flying long haul Asia & India then I was flying traditional 3 day Europe on the 757/767 for many years.

Again it’s not for everyone. But most get addicted to the flying and the choice of quality of life at home and work and or the ability to make extra pay. I’ve done all types of flying, narrow body domestic, 767 Europe and now long haul 777. By far the 777 is the absolute best flying of my 35 year airline career.

I guess you missed my sarcasm. But thank you for the preceeding five paragraph explanation.

Yup sarcasm totally missed, my bad! But hey maybe its helpful for others that is what this thread is about no? If not that’s 15 minutes I’ll never get back.

I am in a junior fleet and a junior captain at NJA. My overnight averages are tracked and currently showing 14 hrs. So I think JTFs number was a bit off the mark. The important thing to remember is that is the average. Yup, there are times when you get min rest but I am usually at the hotel and lounging on the bed by the time I get my shutdown message so it’s easy to get at least 8 hrs sleep even on those min turns.

The problem with all you are saying is that you need 20+ years to reach that point.