The flightsalary .com website has some pretty in depth pay calculators for the major airlines and looks like they will have a NJA calculator up soon

There have been 5 True SIC to PIC upgrades this year, 5!!!! in 4 months, why don't u check the union boards a lot a guys agree with me as well.

The union boards are usually filled with the same handful of folks who think we are continually getting shafted at every turn. As the IBB was going through you would think from the boards we were taking pay CUTS instead of raises! So I am not suprised many on the "boards" agree with you. They were wrong then and they are wrong now...to your benefit.

Like I said...chill, have a beer, and cheer up a bit.

Have a good one.

Spot on Tim. I think some guys just love dealing out doom and gloom. I can see upgrades going 4-5 years for FIRST available based on simple math with the 60/40 crew ratio and projected hiring. The upgrades are slow now as the company tries to adjust to that ratio but it should pick up by the end of the year assuming hiring goes as planned. Of course all this can change in a NY min. But life IS good!:D

Well said Tim, I wish we had more guys like you, with that positive attitude. Amazing, great job we have, and people still find things to complain about. If you come accross as a satisfied, happy employee, you're a " kool aid drinker". That really angers me.

I've been here 3 years, I've looked at that site once or twice. I don't want to see any whining, I don't need that in my life right now. I guess that's the nature of a pilot. I think it was Gordon Bethune who said " I don't worry when my pilots complain, I worry when they're quiet".

So I guess nobody has nothing to say about the 5 SIC to PIC upgrades this year? This doesn't Shock anybody?

And its not like anybody whines on any of these internet boards right? Guess I'm the only one willing to tell the true about upgrades here.

Nope. You are just the doom and gloom prophet who will say anything negative and shocking knowing that few if any will remember or care when it does not happen just so you can say, "I told you so" if it actually does and you can feel superior to us average folks. You aren't the only one. Go to the major section here and see the couple of folks talking about furloughs already as if they were happening today.

I'll even buy you that beer if it would just cheer you up a little.:D

If what you say regarding upgrades is true, it reflects nothing more than bad timing on your part...something you cannot help, but that is the truth.

When I was hired here, you could upgrade right out of indoc but the payscales were abysmal. The true upgrade numbers will vary month-to-month, depending on a host of factors out of our control. There will always be somebody sitting in the right seat and there will always be somebody holding the rest of the seniority list on their shoulders (junior folk). It just never seems to be fair when standing at the back of the line. We have all been there and I sympathize.

Something tells me if you really disliked working at NJA, you would seek work elsewhere. Not to be flippant, but many of the legacy/major/regional airlines are hiring. Since you have decided to stay with NJA, I will then assume that overall, it has been a pleasant work experience, peppered with a sense of urgency to move to the left seat...which has been a point of frustration for you. I am quite positive though, that the FO pay rate is more than sufficient to hold you over until your upgrade. If you are a 3rd year FO, you are making between $63,000 to $78,000 BASE pay...and we all know that you make much more than that with OT, holiday pay, perdiem, bonus payments, etc... If you were starving, you might garner more sympathy.

I think once you upgrade you will see things a bit differently...but I could be wrong. I am hoping that upgrades pick up in the near future and that you are chosen to move to the left seat. But that again, is up to timing and seniority. Good luck to you.

I preface this entire reply with I am in the military, have not ever flow for the airlines or NJ. There, now that I got that out of the way....

I do have friends at both companies, and who work all types of civilian flying. I have done comparable flying, having started out flying LJ35 (C-21) for three years and am now flying the venerable C-5 (FRED).

Lifestyle wise, doing the LJ flying was by far a better lifestyle. Money wise, flying FRED made my pay jump quite a bit.

Deciding on what is going to be best for you.....only you can do that. For me, NJ is my dream job. I enjoy the money and the around the world lifestyle I lead now, but in the end, I will burn out on it pretty quickly.

My friends fly for DAL, SW, United, FDX, UPS, NJ, Flex and corporate. There are pros and cons to both. They are all happy and have given me great info on their jobs. There are to many variables to make an acurate picture of what your life is going to be like in 10 years.

I one day hope to be arguing the philosophical pros and cons to this type of flying....I envy you guys! :D

WAFP -

"Money wise, flying FRED made my pay jump quite a bit."

You actually make more money flying the C-5 or you make more money because you have gotten pay raises based on promotion and TIG since your days flying the C-21?
I mean - it doesn't matter if I fly the Hornet or the T-34C - my paycheck stays the same.

As for the comments about pros and cons and it being a very personal choice based on a hundred different issues - I couldn't agree more. I'm like you - haven't flown for the airlines or fractional or corporate or cargo but have friends in nearly every one of the above. They each seem very happy on their chosen path.

USMCFLYR