The FAA is after me!
 

Any and all thoughts would be most welcome.
Had a situation a few months ago where the combination of a very excited passenger, (pvt. pilot) and a faulty altitude capture mode caused us to deviate altitude +300 feet at FL350. We caught the problem but rather than push the nose over and put the passenger into the ceiling, we had him return to his seat and decended to FL350. We were high for about 30 secs. Denver center has us call them to explain. There was no loss of seperation. Now the Denver FSDO is taking a look at this and I am worried this might become A "ding" on my record. Anyone with a similar experience?
Any advice would be great.

Cheers.

Did you file a NASA report? Too late now, but that could have saved you.

Interesting topic for me here. I am military and not familiar with a NASA report. Care to explain it a bit or would I be better off doing a google search?

NASA Report

ASAP Report

Thanks Dog Breath. I will check it out.

filling out a NASA report gives you certain protection from being persued by the FAA on incidents,,can't be used for accidents or crimes though.

the FAA is after me
 

I filed one as soon as I landed. Got the recipt in the mail a few weeks ago. I know it offers some protection, but for the life of me I can't understand why the Denver FSDO has such a hard on for this. I heard a SWA crew "bust" an altitude but the center didn't have them make a call.

Hard to say why they are after you without knowing what they saw. With the FAA cracking down on everyone everywhere, you may be an easy target for them.

You already took care of the big thing - the NASA report. I don't have any other advice, other than to contact a Union Rep or maybe someone at AOPA.

i doubt they will do anything for 300 ft,,especially if there was no conflict

You need to contact your union and get a avaition attorney assigned and work through them. Don't use this forum for advise. Get professional help.

If the FAA calls you and wants to ask you questions about it, SAY NOTHING!!! They may try to say that they are calling to really just get some facts (try to be your friend)and that is it. But that is a lie and they can use whatever you say against you. Have them contact your lawyer for further details.
One of our crews experienced this too. The crew just wound up having to go to FlightSafety for additional training.

If you did it right it should protect you from disciplinary action...but if they violate you it will still go in your record which is the real concern (you don't want to explain it to future employers). I'd talk to a lawyer too.

If you filed the NASA report you should be good. DON'T LOSE THAT RECEIPT THEY SENT YOU......That's your ticket protection. The other guys are right, contact you union office (if your in a union job) and don't talk to the FAA without a legal rep. I would bet you'll be done with this soon enough, but the FAA is under the scope themselves these days and they get bent about anthing over 200 feet in RVSM..
Good Luck

If you really had a "faulty" Alt Cap and wrote it up then you are off the hook before you ever got on. You still may be able to use the issue to slide right off the hook nice and easy like even if wasn't written up and you can explain how it was still an automation glitch you had to recover from.

It seems the FAA used to be like this 'no harm no foul'. Now its a different story. It seems as if they are reporting every minor issue to the FDSO's.

Watch out in Detroit. They have been REALLY bad in the last year. Small heading errors (flying 200 instead of 220) had resulted in NO separation issues, were reported.

I just talked to my buddy and he is saying the supervisors are the problem. The sups are getting so anal that the controllers have to report everything, if they don't its grounds for termination.
He also said the FAA gives 'points' to managers for writing controller up.

The way things are going now soon every pilot will have a violation on their record.

What he said

The Denver contingent of the Friendly Aviation Association is legendary for being particularly prickly. Had the unfortunate opportunity to "work" with them in the past.

I assume you have received a certified letter officially stating the FSDO intends to investigate. If so, time to Lawyer up.

Best of luck.

Also, As Tgaug6300 stated, do not talk to them when they call you on the phone for a "friendly conversation." This is textbook FAA strategy. His speaker phone will be on with another co-worker in the room writing down every word. Let your aviation lawyer draft your official response.

Unlike a court of law, the FAA adminstrative investigation process is not procedurely constrained. Stated another way, in the Kangaroo Court of the FAA, second, and third hand hearsay evidence is completely admissable. This includes whatever "evidence" an inspector can get you to share with him over the phone. Hence the reason never talk to one immediately after an accident or incident when you're still rattled from the experience.

JetJock13:

First if the situation you speak about is over 2 weeks old, and the FAA did not call or write you, they can not violate you. The FAA has two weeks to contact and violate.

After the two weeks, the only thing they can do is issue a letter of warning that follows you for two years.

About 4 years ago, DFW center accused me of flying through the radial I was told to intercept. I stated I did not by all indications in the cockpit. As far as I know, we never received a TCAS, there was no loss of separation. When I told the inspector I would like to see the proof of what was on the tape, he said he would provide it, but in court and then he would try and get a violation. (That is they only way to violate after two week, in court.)

A friend had the same threat made with an altitude bust. The inspectors are not your friend. When something comes across their desk, someone is to blame, whether pilot or controller. I was told by a former inspector, the easiest way to get the file closed is to issue a letter of warning.

Hope this info helps.

Use the union lawyer. That is what you pay dues for. I dout it will come to anything, but it doesn't hurt to be prepared.

Isnt this why transponders have an off switch?

Best of luck to you man.

Hey Jetjock

Has your company received a letter from the FAA? If so... what support, if any, are your D/O and C/P providing you with?

Focus training and forgiveness..works everytime...

If you don't have union help AOPA has legal help and a panel of attorneys,,

I agree with Socal Swede. I did get a lawyer and he did the talking to the appropriate people and I got a Warning Letter as it was my first offense with the FAA. It's a Warning Letter. I, too, filed a NASA report at the beginning to cover my backside. Hope this helps.

I've seen multiple deviations of all kinds and a few factors seem to play into whether you hear something or not: just one of those excitable/angry controllers; you scared him/her; you didn't seem to recognize/react to the problem. If they think you'll repeat offend or you don't understand the importance, they're more likely to take it further. Oh, and if his/her supervisor is standing over the shoulder.

Jetjock

PM me I will give you info and contacts . Had this happen to me, also have a small company that works with attorneys. Most important don't talk or write to FAA. Also don't let ANYONE know you have NASA form yet.

30west

ps off to LHR wed-fri

jetjock13, best of luck dear friend. I hope you get one of those letters that read:

" we are going to let it go, but DON"T do it again".

"If you really had a "faulty" Alt Cap and wrote it up then you are off the hook before you ever got on. You still may be able to use the issue to slide right off the hook nice and easy like even if wasn't written up and you can explain how it was still an automation glitch you had to recover from."

Case in point for contacting a lawyer or union rep......get correct info.
Doesn't matter if you wrote it up or not, automation glitch or not, etc.
You take it in the air, you are responsible for flying by the rules.
If it doesn't capture, kick off the autopilot and make it capture the alt. Same for Navigation errors......it it doesn't fly the correct route, make it fly the correct route. Either that or make the mech. fix it first.:)

BTW,
my last post was in response to DigDug's comment, not to the original post.......JetJok, hope it all works out for you!

Just for clarification, is a letter of warning a violation? I'm guessing since it goes off your record after two years it is not?

If I recall correctly from my aviation law course letter of warning is still a violation and will go on your record, but it is not severe enough to warrant certificate action. My suggestion is to get an aviation lawyer and fight it.

just a side note. if you had a faulty alt hold problem, you said you went back down to 350. that is operating in rvsm airspace with a faulty autopilot which makes your plane negative rvsm. if you are going to argue that point, i hope you declared negative rvsm and decended below 290, or else you could easily get yourself in more trouble than the original deviation. once again...get a lawyer.

Did you admit to the controller that you busted the altitude? Transponders are not always accurate. I would also suggest getting an aviation lawyer. Also, (this may sound stupid) do you have any friends at the local FSDO? I have been told they can be helpful in these instances. Good luck with this.

Get a lawyer the second you hear anything in writing from the FAA. An ASRS (NASA form) will keep you from serving a suspension, but it still shows up on your record as a suspension for seven years. That's a long time when you are looking for a better job and you have to explain it at each and every interview. Not fun.

An aviation lawyer will have fun defending the "onboard emergency for which you filed a NASA report" due to the pax distracting the flight crew coupled with an equipment malfunction. Hopefully you haven't already opened your mouth with the Feds so the lawyer will have something with which to work.

The FSDOs have six months to start pursuit after becoming aware of a violation, not two weeks. Even then, one has to pay in time and effort, if not cash, to get to the NTSB Admin Law Review Judge to appeal on the stale complaint rule if the FAA pursues after six months of becoming aware of the violation. The FAA is judge, jury, prosecutor, and executioner who doesn't have to follow most evidence rules. IOW, it is an uphill battle best avoided.

Any news yet?

This is a situation where I would miss my old airline's ASAP program. It can really be a help in situations like these. I'm not with an airline now, so I have a bunch of NASA reports in the bag. Understand, though, that NASA reports can't save you from everything. The self-disclosure will be viewed favorably, and they can't use info. IN the report against you, but if somebody else (controller) also reports an event, they CAN still bust your ass (but almost NEVER will unless it was really bad and you are acting REALLY uncooperative).

Late reply, but whatever. Dont admit to vacating assigned altitude. Ever.

Admit NOTHING. Stick to your guns!