Survival of Fractionals/Corporate
11-26-2008, 11:21 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 74
Survival of Fractionals/Corporate
Rather than add to the explosive "NetJets is going down (paraphrased)" thread, there's another concept I'd be interested in hearing more about. I didn't notice it written in the thread I am referring to, but I didn't have the desire to read all the stupid remarks. One guy's insecurity outdoes the last. Get out and throw the football or something!
In today's economy, I don't think the question is whether Mr. X is rich enough to afford gas at 2 or 7 per gallon. There are plenty of rich people who can afford the gas. An upstart fighting for market share will be affected by this, but not so much NetJets, in my humble opinion.
A more pertinent and long term question is "How will changing energy policies affect NetJets, fractionals, corporates, and the industry in general?" If the government starts holding us accountable for our own carbon footprint, that will affect everyone. Airlines will continue to fly because people need to travel. The cost will be dispersed over hundreds per flight. Planes will get larger, not smaller. Airline travel will be protected as a public good, because there are more middle class voters than tycoons. Nevermind the fuel, if a corporate has to pass the carbon footprint fee on to the user, the price, compared to fuel, might be apples vs. orchards.
I am not making any predictions and I certainly am not trying to incite arguments. But I am interested if anyone has information about the impact of such policy and NetJets or any company's plans to mitigate that impact.
In today's economy, I don't think the question is whether Mr. X is rich enough to afford gas at 2 or 7 per gallon. There are plenty of rich people who can afford the gas. An upstart fighting for market share will be affected by this, but not so much NetJets, in my humble opinion.
A more pertinent and long term question is "How will changing energy policies affect NetJets, fractionals, corporates, and the industry in general?" If the government starts holding us accountable for our own carbon footprint, that will affect everyone. Airlines will continue to fly because people need to travel. The cost will be dispersed over hundreds per flight. Planes will get larger, not smaller. Airline travel will be protected as a public good, because there are more middle class voters than tycoons. Nevermind the fuel, if a corporate has to pass the carbon footprint fee on to the user, the price, compared to fuel, might be apples vs. orchards.
I am not making any predictions and I certainly am not trying to incite arguments. But I am interested if anyone has information about the impact of such policy and NetJets or any company's plans to mitigate that impact.
11-26-2008, 12:08 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 825
NetJets took steps to address the carbon footprint some time ago:
NetJets Climate Initiative - Environmentally Friendly Aviation Technologies - Offsetting Jet Emissions
NetJets Climate Initiative - Environmentally Friendly Aviation Technologies - Offsetting Jet Emissions
11-28-2008, 10:41 AM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 288
My house sits on one acre that I kept fully wooded when I built. Anyone know where I can sell my carbon credit? I understand that lots of people are getting in on this scam. Take an already wooded area that you have no plans to clear and then start selling credits on it. I know Al Gore is heavily vested in this absurdity, and I could really use the free money with the market downturn. Wonder how much I can make for an acre?
11-28-2008, 05:41 PM
#4
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,512
If the US government starts "holding us accountable for our own carbon footprint", I'm going to hope that 1. they've already taken steps to improve the government's emissions, and 2. the government is charged equal cost as private citizens. I'm then going to be looking to get some new politicians elected, because the ones that will have started that policy will be off their effing rockers.
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Department of Energy says Jet-A produces just over 21lb of CO2 per gallon burned. As such, burning less fuel by operational changes will lessen the "carbon footprint" of an aircraft. On two of our common city pairs, we have saved 250lb (over 12% the total burn in our Citation II) by using more aggressive climb/descent profiles and higher cruise altitudes...which amounts to 803lb fewer CO2 emissions.
I'm also planting a garden in the spring....does that count?
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Department of Energy says Jet-A produces just over 21lb of CO2 per gallon burned. As such, burning less fuel by operational changes will lessen the "carbon footprint" of an aircraft. On two of our common city pairs, we have saved 250lb (over 12% the total burn in our Citation II) by using more aggressive climb/descent profiles and higher cruise altitudes...which amounts to 803lb fewer CO2 emissions.
I'm also planting a garden in the spring....does that count?
11-29-2008, 04:56 PM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 825
Originally Posted by Superluminal
How can a gallon of Jet-A weighing 6.7 lbs. produce 21 lbs. of CO2?
During combustion, you're adding the weight of the oxygen to the exhaust. The oxygen from the air combines with carbon from the jet fuel, greatly increasing its mass.
11-29-2008, 05:20 PM
#7
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,512
11-29-2008, 07:56 PM
#9
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Curator at Static Display
Posts: 5,681
More Chemistry
The typical stoichimetric ratio for hydrocarbon fuels (whether that be gasoline, Jet-fuel, wax, or ethanol) is about 7 lbs of air per lb of fuel.
So, mix one lb of fuel with 7 lbs of air, and you have "products of combustion" that weigh 8 lbs.
Of that 8 lbs, roughly 3 lbs of it will be CO2, based on Boilerups' DOE quote. The rest will largely be Nitrogen (mostly unaffected during combustion), and trace amounts of water vapor, CO, and NO2.
So, mix one lb of fuel with 7 lbs of air, and you have "products of combustion" that weigh 8 lbs.
Of that 8 lbs, roughly 3 lbs of it will be CO2, based on Boilerups' DOE quote. The rest will largely be Nitrogen (mostly unaffected during combustion), and trace amounts of water vapor, CO, and NO2.
