|
8 and 6 it is...
Management unilaterally decided to implement an 8-on/6-off schedule for all pilots. The PAC doesn't support or agree with the decision. Base pay remains the same (no pay increase) with (as I understand it) regular hourly pay beginning at 4 a.m. on 8th day until you reach your base/domicile.
The only upside I see from the new forced schedule is that senior captains who have enjoyed big bucks volunteering for OT will no longer be relatively compensed. This may discourage them from taking on the extra work and will result in the company coming to terms with a realistic picture of the actual supply and demand. They need to hire more pilots to fly the line rather than scrambling at the last minute and paying out huge sums in OT to cover the line. |
Originally Posted by AttitudeUp
(Post 884927)
Management unilaterally decided to implement an 8-on/6-off schedule for all pilots. The PAC doesn't support or agree with the decision. Base pay remains the same (no pay increase) with (as I understand it) regular hourly pay beginning at 4 a.m. on 8th day until you reach your base/domicile.
The only upside I see from the new forced schedule is that senior captains who have enjoyed big bucks volunteering for OT will no longer be relatively compensed. This may discourage them from taking on the extra work and will result in the company coming to terms with a realistic picture of the actual supply and demand. They need to hire more pilots to fly the line rather than scrambling at the last minute and paying out huge sums in OT to cover the line. |
Originally Posted by T56Maniac
(Post 885009)
I'm ready, put me in the game..... :-)
Avantair folks: What cuts has management taken? If the CEO makes what Beentheredoneit says he does, then he makes way too much for a company that is still in the red. Making the pilots work an extra day with no pay raise... I call that a pay cut. You NEED to start a union drive. Even if you don't want a union, management will likely be more receptive to the pilot groups' requests. Look at Allegiant as an example example. |
Originally Posted by Flex81
(Post 888055)
You NEED to start a union drive. Even if you don't want a union, management will likely be more receptive to the pilot groups' requests. Look at Allegiant as an example example.
-mini |
Originally Posted by AttitudeUp
(Post 884927)
Management unilaterally decided to implement an 8-on/6-off schedule for all pilots. The PAC doesn't support or agree with the decision. Base pay remains the same (no pay increase) with (as I understand it) regular hourly pay beginning at 4 a.m. on 8th day until you reach your base/domicile.
The only upside I see from the new forced schedule is that senior captains who have enjoyed big bucks volunteering for OT will no longer be relatively compensed. This may discourage them from taking on the extra work and will result in the company coming to terms with a realistic picture of the actual supply and demand. They need to hire more pilots to fly the line rather than scrambling at the last minute and paying out huge sums in OT to cover the line. So you are saying that if you get home at 10:00 pm on day 8, you get paid 6 hours for that day? That's only 25% of your daily rate and you are working all day! Not to mention that you used to get OT for that. I'm not sure what that rate is, but the math will come out to less that %25 obviously. If I were a Captain there, I would make sure to write up Mx discrepancies right away when they break (instead of carrying them to your Mx bases). |
Originally Posted by minitour
(Post 888061)
Either that, or when they head to Flight Safety, magically the examiners will find something to bust you on and you're out the door. Watch that circling approach!
-mini |
Several pilots have contacted me and given me the latest scoop there:
They say that several people have quit in the past few days (with more coming) since the forced implementation of their new 8/6 schedule. I’m told that nearly half a dozen fewer pilots fly for them today then they had two weeks. It amazes me that pilots are resigning from Avantair in this economy. Management THANKED the pilots and PAC for their participation in the new schedule process, meanwhile the PAC says they weren't even consuulted about it, they oppose it, and had nothing to do with it. Someone is lying....LOL The company is now so short on pilots that they are sending out multiple e-mails begging for pilots to work extra days. It doesn't sound like there are many takers. |
That sounds about right. Except I only got 1 e-mail begging.
Put me down as actively searching. |
I have worked here for years and after checking around I found out that the posted info is incorrect concerning the number of pilots leaving, the PAC (Pilot Advisory Committee) not being involved in the process, the number of emails that went out, the intent of that email and the response to the email.
Has any one seen an obsessed angry and obviously disgruntled ex-employee who may still be carrying a grudge about the fact that he did not get an upgrade at his 1 year recurrent anywhere on this website? :rolleyes: |
Your fellow pilots are posting that my info is quite accurate. Hell.....I read it of the excact email you YOU have. I am believing the other guys, not the Koolaid guy,
|
Originally Posted by BeenThereDoneIt
(Post 889026)
Your fellow pilots are posting that my info is quite accurate. Hell.....I read it of the excact email you YOU have. I am believing the other guys, not the Koolaid guy,
Self incrimination is a wonderful thing:cool: |
Originally Posted by BeenThereDoneIt
(Post 889026)
Your fellow pilots are posting that my info is quite accurate. Hell.....I read it of the excact email you YOU have. I am believing the other guys, not the Koolaid guy,
Only one pilot has quit in the past two weeks. My source is a member of the pac, and I have no reason to disbelieve him. So I'm going to label that a fact. His departure could easily be normal attrition, or not. I don't know the details, and clearly you don't either. Because I don't know, I will not venture any conjecture. Are the pilots upset right now? Sure, most are, but we'll work it out, and come out of this stronger. That's a personal opinion, followed by conjecture, not a fact. I haven't taken a poll, or anything. Some may leave, most will stay, the economy will, I hope, strengthen, and Avantair will, with luck, flourish. This is more conjecture. I wish these ideas were facts, but they are not. To express them as facts would be dishonest. Do you know what dishonest means? I wonder. What is also known is that you lasted to a recurrent event and left the company under questionable circumstances. I know it's a more complicated idea, but that's a fact mixed with personal conjecture. Are we clear on that point? Are you starting to understand? There are several rumors floating around the company as to what happened at your recurrent, but I don't know them to be true. I know they can't all be, and they may all easily be false. Repeating them here would be considered dishonest by most self-respecting people. See how this works? And you are now posting misinformation on this forum, because you were given a lifetime ban from Flightinfo.com for divulging personal information about another member, and then sending insulting e-mails to the moderators. Those are facts. Those are also the actions of a less than respectable person. That's a personal opinion. The aviation world is very, very small, and your name is now well known among many people, both pilots and management, for all the wrong reasons. That's a fact followed by personal conjecture. I will state as a personal opinion that your motivations and actions are pathetic. We have left you behind. That's a fact. Does this make you angry? That's a question. You can answer it, or not. Most people would either choose to answer it honestly, or they would choose to not answer it rather than lie. Most people, by sticking to the truth, sleep better and are able to look their spouses and children in the eye the next morning. They know, in their hearts, that they can be trusted through thick and thin. The people in their lives know it, too. Liars don't have that feeling. It has been said by someone much smarter than me that "the best revenge is living well." That's called advice. In my opinion, it's good advice. You might think about that. Grow a pair, and move on with your life. That's a suggestion. Fanblade. |
Yawn......
|
BTDI = Tim Martins?
Ever flown an F16, dude? |
Originally Posted by fanblade
(Post 889192)
Actually, your info has some truth(not much) and a lot of misinformation. Your statement is at best misinformed, but it might actually be completely dishonest. You seem to mixing facts with conjecture, or personal opinion. Let me show you the honest way to handle facts, and how to seperate them from personal opinion. Conjecture of course, does not represent facts, but rather is a reasonable supposition based on facts and the experience of the person doing the reasoning. Conjecture can be wrong. Is this too complicated for you? Let's try some examples.
Only one pilot has quit in the past two weeks. My source is a member of the pac, and I have no reason to disbelieve him. So I'm going to label that a fact. His departure could easily be normal attrition, or not. I don't know the details, and clearly you don't either. Because I don't know, I will not venture any conjecture. Are the pilots upset right now? Sure, most are, but we'll work it out, and come out of this stronger. That's a personal opinion, followed by conjecture, not a fact. I haven't taken a poll, or anything. Some may leave, most will stay, the economy will, I hope, strengthen, and Avantair will, with luck, flourish. This is more conjecture. I wish these ideas were facts, but they are not. To express them as facts would be dishonest. Do you know what dishonest means? I wonder. What is also known is that you lasted to a recurrent event and left the company under questionable circumstances. I know it's a more complicated idea, but that's a fact mixed with personal conjecture. Are we clear on that point? Are you starting to understand? There are several rumors floating around the company as to what happened at your recurrent, but I don't know them to be true. I know they can't all be, and they may all easily be false. Repeating them here would be considered dishonest by most self-respecting people. See how this works? And you are now posting misinformation on this forum, because you were given a lifetime ban from Flightinfo.com for divulging personal information about another member, and then sending insulting e-mails to the moderators. Those are facts. Those are also the actions of a less than respectable person. That's a personal opinion. The aviation world is very, very small, and your name is now well known among many people, both pilots and management, for all the wrong reasons. That's a fact followed by personal conjecture. I will state as a personal opinion that your motivations and actions are pathetic. We have left you behind. That's a fact. Does this make you angry? That's a question. You can answer it, or not. Most people would either choose to answer it honestly, or they would choose to not answer it rather than lie. Most people, by sticking to the truth, sleep better and are able to look their spouses and children in the eye the next morning. They know, in their hearts, that they can be trusted through thick and thin. The people in their lives know it, too. Liars don't have that feeling. It has been said by someone much smarter than me that "the best revenge is living well." That's called advice. In my opinion, it's good advice. You might think about that. Grow a pair, and move on with your life. That's a suggestion. Fanblade. |
Originally Posted by Flex81
(Post 888067)
So you are saying that if you get home at 10:00 pm on day 8, you get paid 6 hours for that day? That's only 25% of your daily rate and you are working all day! Not to mention that you used to get OT for that. I'm not sure what that rate is, but the math will come out to less that %25 obviously.
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Originally Posted by BeenThereDoneIt
(Post 889026)
Your fellow pilots are posting that my info is quite accurate. Hell.....I read it of the excact email you YOU have. I am believing the other guys, not the Koolaid guy,
This e-mail message from Avantair is for the sole use of the intended recipient or recipients unless an authorization to forward is specified. This email may not be considered spam. It may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, distribution, or other dissemination of this e-mail message and/or the information contained therein is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail message, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. So, what you are saying is that you are getting forwarded emails from a current employee at Avantair and are disclosing and distributing confidential information from a company with CEO that has a law background? I think I would consider my informant/friends employment before I went shooting my mouth off in a public forum about emails he forwarded to you. Just my 2 cents |
Changing to an 8-day schedule equates to an additional 26 days per year that you now have to fly. Now, instead of working 6 months per year and being with your families 6 months per year, you now have to work 7 months per year and get to spend 5 months with your families. :eek:
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Originally Posted by Pilatapus
(Post 889433)
The emails that come from Avantair state at bottom:
This e-mail message from Avantair is for the sole use of the intended recipient or recipients unless an authorization to forward is specified. This email may not be considered spam. It may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, distribution, or other dissemination of this e-mail message and/or the information contained therein is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail message, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. So, what you are saying is that you are getting forwarded emails from a current employee at Avantair and are disclosing and distributing confidential information from a company with CEO that has a law background? I think I would consider my informant/friends employment before I went shooting my mouth off in a public forum about emails he forwarded to you. Just my 2 cents |
I agree. And I also seriously doubt a max pilot exodus at Avantair. Where they gonna go? Management understands this. Its an employers' market right now and thats just the way it is. One day it will swing back the other way.
|
Originally Posted by fanblade
(Post 889192)
Actually, your info has some truth(not much) and a lot of misinformation. Your statement is at best misinformed, but it might actually be completely dishonest. You seem to mixing facts with conjecture, or personal opinion. Let me show you the honest way to handle facts, and how to seperate them from personal opinion. Conjecture of course, does not represent facts, but rather is a reasonable supposition based on facts and the experience of the person doing the reasoning. Conjecture can be wrong. Is this too complicated for you? Let's try some examples.
Only one pilot has quit in the past two weeks. My source is a member of the pac, and I have no reason to disbelieve him. So I'm going to label that a fact. His departure could easily be normal attrition, or not. I don't know the details, and clearly you don't either. Because I don't know, I will not venture any conjecture. Are the pilots upset right now? Sure, most are, but we'll work it out, and come out of this stronger. That's a personal opinion, followed by conjecture, not a fact. I haven't taken a poll, or anything. Some may leave, most will stay, the economy will, I hope, strengthen, and Avantair will, with luck, flourish. This is more conjecture. I wish these ideas were facts, but they are not. To express them as facts would be dishonest. Do you know what dishonest means? I wonder. What is also known is that you lasted to a recurrent event and left the company under questionable circumstances. I know it's a more complicated idea, but that's a fact mixed with personal conjecture. Are we clear on that point? Are you starting to understand? There are several rumors floating around the company as to what happened at your recurrent, but I don't know them to be true. I know they can't all be, and they may all easily be false. Repeating them here would be considered dishonest by most self-respecting people. See how this works? And you are now posting misinformation on this forum, because you were given a lifetime ban from Flightinfo.com for divulging personal information about another member, and then sending insulting e-mails to the moderators. Those are facts. Those are also the actions of a less than respectable person. That's a personal opinion. The aviation world is very, very small, and your name is now well known among many people, both pilots and management, for all the wrong reasons. That's a fact followed by personal conjecture. I will state as a personal opinion that your motivations and actions are pathetic. We have left you behind. That's a fact. Does this make you angry? That's a question. You can answer it, or not. Most people would either choose to answer it honestly, or they would choose to not answer it rather than lie. Most people, by sticking to the truth, sleep better and are able to look their spouses and children in the eye the next morning. They know, in their hearts, that they can be trusted through thick and thin. The people in their lives know it, too. Liars don't have that feeling. It has been said by someone much smarter than me that "the best revenge is living well." That's called advice. In my opinion, it's good advice. You might think about that. Grow a pair, and move on with your life. That's a suggestion. Fanblade.
Originally Posted by Triggs
(Post 889258)
That was so good I had to make sure BTDI saw it again. Don't know who you are, but the beer is on me.
Just to keep this excellent post at the top of the list, I had to re-visit. And, I'd buy you a beer, but supposedly I only drink Kool-Aid, so it'll have to be some Gentleman Jack, (and Kool-Aid)... ;) |
And BTDI, before you take offense again, and toss the "Kool-Aid drinker on cue" line at me again, let me just re-play this blast from your past.
I was so flattered at the time when you posted:
Originally Posted by BeenThereDoneIt
(Post 606330)
BM, you were one of the pilots that I mentioned who were safety conscience and professional. I enjoyed flying with you. I wish you and your company all the best.
:) |
Originally Posted by fanblade
(Post 889192)
Actually, your info has some truth(not much) and a lot of misinformation. Your statement is at best misinformed, but it might actually be completely dishonest. You seem to mixing facts with conjecture, or personal opinion. Let me show you the honest way to handle facts, and how to seperate them from personal opinion. Conjecture of course, does not represent facts, but rather is a reasonable supposition based on facts and the experience of the person doing the reasoning. Conjecture can be wrong. Is this too complicated for you? Let's try some examples.
Only one pilot has quit in the past two weeks. My source is a member of the pac, and I have no reason to disbelieve him. So I'm going to label that a fact. His departure could easily be normal attrition, or not. I don't know the details, and clearly you don't either. Because I don't know, I will not venture any conjecture. Are the pilots upset right now? Sure, most are, but we'll work it out, and come out of this stronger. That's a personal opinion, followed by conjecture, not a fact. I haven't taken a poll, or anything. Some may leave, most will stay, the economy will, I hope, strengthen, and Avantair will, with luck, flourish. This is more conjecture. I wish these ideas were facts, but they are not. To express them as facts would be dishonest. Do you know what dishonest means? I wonder. What is also known is that you lasted to a recurrent event and left the company under questionable circumstances. I know it's a more complicated idea, but that's a fact mixed with personal conjecture. Are we clear on that point? Are you starting to understand? There are several rumors floating around the company as to what happened at your recurrent, but I don't know them to be true. I know they can't all be, and they may all easily be false. Repeating them here would be considered dishonest by most self-respecting people. See how this works? And you are now posting misinformation on this forum, because you were given a lifetime ban from Flightinfo.com for divulging personal information about another member, and then sending insulting e-mails to the moderators. Those are facts. Those are also the actions of a less than respectable person. That's a personal opinion. The aviation world is very, very small, and your name is now well known among many people, both pilots and management, for all the wrong reasons. That's a fact followed by personal conjecture. I will state as a personal opinion that your motivations and actions are pathetic. We have left you behind. That's a fact. Does this make you angry? That's a question. You can answer it, or not. Most people would either choose to answer it honestly, or they would choose to not answer it rather than lie. Most people, by sticking to the truth, sleep better and are able to look their spouses and children in the eye the next morning. They know, in their hearts, that they can be trusted through thick and thin. The people in their lives know it, too. Liars don't have that feeling. It has been said by someone much smarter than me that "the best revenge is living well." That's called advice. In my opinion, it's good advice. You might think about that. Grow a pair, and move on with your life. That's a suggestion. Fanblade. |
Thanks. Mainiac, see you at the garage raising.
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On your company forum you all said you were going to start ignoring my posts here. That didn't last very long.....LOLOLOLOL :)
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Originally Posted by p-factor
(Post 889392)
No, that's not what he's saying. Read it again, carefully.
Is that correct? |
What REALLY sucks about it, is that the extra work day equates to a 14% more chance of missing a kids birthday, missing a wifes anniversary, missing a kids ballgame........talk about taking one for the team! :confused:
We Got This! |
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Lotsa extra time to post cartoons while working that 8th day....LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
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I am not sure about your pay guys but really in this climate a lot of pilots would kill for any of those schedules. I am going to a 15 on 13 off with a great company and I am very happy with that schedule. I have done all the mentioned schedules and then one other for the last five months...O(zero) on, no paycheck and everything off..think about that..having said that I held out so I would not be abused..
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Flampard.....I agree with their senior PAC Member who said in his e-mail to the pilot group that this new schedule was a PAY CUT and he doesn't support it. Have any other fractionals had PAY CUTS? I know some had furloughs.
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I believe Alpha/Planesense had a small actual cut in their pay.
Working more time for same pay is often considered a "pay cut"...but its not the same as an actual decrease in your compensation. |
Originally Posted by flampard
(Post 891042)
I am not sure about your pay guys but really in this climate a lot of pilots would kill for any of those schedules. I am going to a 15 on 13 off with a great company and I am very happy with that schedule. I have done all the mentioned schedules and then one other for the last five months...O(zero) on, no paycheck and everything off..think about that..having said that I held out so I would not be abused..
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Originally Posted by BoilerUP
(Post 891199)
I believe Alpha/Planesense had a small actual cut in their pay.
Working more time for same pay is often considered a "pay cut"...but its not the same as an actual decrease in your compensation. If I am forced to work 14% more time for the same pay......that is a PAY CUT. |
What if you work 100% less time for no money?
|
Originally Posted by BeenThereDoneIt
(Post 891474)
If I am forced to work 14% more time for the same pay......that is a PAY CUT.
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Originally Posted by BoilerUP
(Post 891656)
Except that all things being equal in that situation, one's W2 didn't change...so no, it wasn't an actual reduction in compensation. Perhaps its just semantics (because I agree with you that more work for no additional compensation is concessionary in nature) but its an important distinction to make.
For everyone else it's a pay cut. |
Typical corporate America...the CEO gets a nice raise while the pilots take a PAY CUT. I wonder if any of the other 300 employees who aren't pilots had to take a PAY CUT. Wasn't there a conference call today to discuss the new schedule?
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They're running a business silly. Its not about spreading the wealth.
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Originally Posted by Flex81
(Post 888055)
It is people like this that give management the leverage to do whatever they want with your schedules and pay. There is always someone willing to do your job for cheaper.
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