Written like a true management man. Thanks, but we don’t need your help pumping this proposal. Let us decide.

Everyone keeps saying, wait for the details to decide. The scary thing is that I have had many conversations over the past week and you wouldnt believe how many people have said that they are already voting yes - without those same details.

I have heard statements like “well, let’s just get this one done, and we’ll do better next time” or “im just sick of waiting” or misguided sentiments that voting no is disrespectful to the NC. Rationalization and complete 180’s are running rampant in people who were super hardcore only a couple of weeks ago. Its sad.

From my viewpoint, every single solitary piece of Barry’s plan has worked out just the way he likes it, and all we have done is backtrack. He has beaten us into psychological submission and the proposed dollar signs are just barely big enough to keep us from seeing it.

Im a hard lean NO but i will hear the full story. Just making it known that from private conversations, this thing passed yesterday.

“A hard lean”...WTF does that mean, Dewey Cox?

Totally blows my mind that people are basing yes/no/leaning/etc on information from the WIVES Facebook page. They said Spirit +2% but they also said it wouldn’t include PBS...

I get being mad at the company. But to say you’re a “NO” sight unseen is exactly as stupid as saying you’re a “YES” sight unseen.

Our NC has worked hard and damn well deserves the respect of at least LOOkING at the results of their 2.5 years of effort.

:confused:

Had to look up the Dewey Cox reference, still not sure I get it.

What was posted on the wives facebook page?

I said im waiting to hear the full story, and not making a decision yet. Until that point It seems that a person who would discourage me from having an initial impression and leaning one way or the other, is someone who doesn’t agree with the way I am leaning. But I don’t know enough about you to make that call.

I think we are in agreement??

Sorry I wasn’t singling you out. I just thought the “hard lean” comment was nonsensical, much like the “walk hard” tag line from the movie. It made me laugh.

I dont lean either way at this point so I can’t say I agree or disagree with you. I know that IF certain things are or are not in the TA that will affect my vote. But since we literally have ZERO information from a reliable source I refuse to waste a finite number of precious brain cells trying to make a decision at this point.

Btw, to everybody...hearing from a guy that heard from a guy who is a “reliable source” is NOT a reliable source. Let’s just fly the contract until we get an email that says “F9 ALPA” on it.

Fair enough, and you can believe that I will be flying the contract until day one of whatever passes.

I will disagree on having zero information. PBS is a published fact. I am a “walk hard lean” against this in particular until I see the most iron clad language ever written in the existence of man, and even then I will be wondering how Indigo is going to ignore it and get away with it. Once bitten, twice shy... how about the 3rd, 4th, 1864th time they have thumbed their nose at our “contract”.

Another fact:
”the new contract provides for ALPA's added participation in pairing development and the ALPA Scheduling Committee will construct and control line solutions.”

This sounds like we are on the right track, but far from anything that gives me a solid feeling. “Added participation” is exactly the kind of language Indigo eats for breakfast.

Again, I will hear the full story.

I'm trying to get my head around why it is a pilot group like Delta has what it takes to kick back a TA, but a pilot group like NK doesn't.

If we could understand the difference we might glean answers that would help us once presented with our TA.

It must be partly because ALPA national gives vastly more support to the big carrier?

Is it because their education campaign is better? Do they corral their pilots together more effectively?

Someone once told me that our guys are forced to still go out and fly the line while in Section 6, whereas the Delta and United NC/MEC are released from all flying to do their job for the union. Anyone know if this is true, because that's a huge penalty for us if it is.

Whatever the reasons, there is something amiss that allows companies like Spirit, Allegiant, and Frontier to take advantage of the nonsensical notion that we deserve less. More perplexing is the fact that so many of our pilots accept this as true.

Listen, our unity WAS lacking, but recently it has come together quite impressively. We've done the hard part, we've fought a brutal battle. Fate showed us favor: the landscape changed; the school house is empty, and planes are getting parked. We have won! All that is left to do is walk in, plant the flag, and claim the victory. Why in the name of everything good would we cede anything major at this point?

Don't be afraid of "more time" and "time value of money" etc. Those are scaredy-cat words. The company will be back post-haste with a new TA.

For the first time in forever, we hold the cards. But if human nature is any predictor, we will sell ourselves short because we lack basic courage.

If this TA is brilliant, and every bit what we deserve, then vote it it in. But if you vote yes, even slightly, out of fear you're pathetic!