QOL Questions
 

Hey,

I’m a mil guy new to the 121 world, I had my sites set on the Legacies, but was offered an interview and after some research I am really interested in Frontier.

I’ve read most posts on this forum, but couldn’t find clear answers to the following:

-Denver is the current largest base but will probably shrink in the future? Philadelphia is very junior, but Miami will probably also be junior?

-What’s reserve life and utilization like? Any differences between junior reserve and a senior reserve line? I.e are reserves called out in reverse seniority order? Long and short call? 2 hour call out? Do you guys utilize airport or hotel standby?

-How productive are the trips? We’ve got young kids, so I’d like to prioritize time at home over pay the first couple of years. After 2-3 years, if I bypass upgrade and live in base, what’s a realistic number of nights away? I assume most people are local and there a fewer commuters here than at other airlines?

-Is there any information on expected retirements? I know 2-2.5x growth is planned, but retirements are more certain..

-Any opinions on Frontier for a guy with 25+ years as a final career company? I like the ULCC model and think it’s going to be very successful long term, but am slightly concerned that maybe the ULCC model is ripe for future mergers or corporate reorganizations.. I guess that’s true if any company (I’m sure PanAm guys thought they were safe), is Frontier any more susceptible than a Legacy?

Thanks in advance for your time, I really appreciate and sincerely want to figure out if Frontier is right for the family and me.

If you live in base, reserve is great. Reserves typically get 12 days off per month, not a whole lot of flexibility. Once you have a line, the schedule and flexibility are amazing. QOL for line holders is on par, and honestly better than the legacies from a contract standpoint.

The growth planned is pretty solid, and part of a large order by our parent company. Depending on which legacy you’re referring to, I’d definitely say Frontier and the ULCC model is a safer bet. I’ve got almost 40 more years of my career left, and I’m betting my money on this. That being said, I’d also bet money on us wearing a different uniform in the coming years. Buyouts and mergers are going to happen anywhere.

Right now Denver is stagnant with minor adjustments here and there. I don't see much movement happening there for quite some time with other bases opening up.

Reserve is a first-in-first-out system by buckets (days of availability). Long call gets called first if the assignment is more than 12 hours out, which is the long call callout time. 2 hrs for short call. No hotel or airport standby. Aggressive reserve pickup is available first to short call reserves. Reserves can pick up during off days, or aggressive pickup on a reserve day that carries into days off. They can also pickup on days off that go into reserve days, in theory. Not sure what the success rate is on that one. All flying that reserves do outside of the reserve periods is paid above guarantee. Reserves are divided into 3 windows with 1 or 2 shifts in each window. AM window is A and B, Mid window is C and PM shifts are D and E. Each shift starts at a different time and are 10.5hr shifts.

We also have 3x6 (3 blocks of 6 days on RSV per month) reserve lines and FDO reserve lines. FDO lines group all your days off at the beginning, middle or end of the month.

I've averaged 15-16 days off a month, but there are 17/18/19 day off lines and even the odd 20 day off lines for those wanting max time off. I try to balance time off with higher credit. Trip productivity varies by base. Most guys modify their schedules with open time add/drop/swap so there are lots of opportunities to improve your line if you didn't like what you got to begin with.

Someone posted our retirements recently in one of the other threads in here. It's not a big number compared to the legacies.

I doubt there will be any more consolidation at the legacy level, I doubt the government would approve it from an anti-trust standpoint. For the time being, it looks like Indigo plans on growing Frontier organically. Whether that will change in the future and when, is anyone's best guess. 25 years is a long time for my crystal ball. I have 23 years left and I'm calling F9 my final destination unless something big changes.

1. Yes Denver is the largest, it does seem like once a new base opens they pillage DEN a little bit. I’m not 100% sure what the long terms plan with DEN is. I’m guessing Philly and Miami will stay very junior.

2. Yes, we only have long call and short call. No airport reserve. We have a.m., mid, and pm reserve for short call. Called out in reserve seniority order.
For me reserve was easy, although I came from a regional being stuck on reserve. I only had to deal with it for 2 bid periods, not sure if that will happen for you but things are moving quick again. I would guess most guys block 30-50 hours per month on reserve, some less some maybe more. I sat medium call (when we had it) for a whole month (Nov.) and never got used. Utilization is up and down.

3. Trips are productive, especially with some seniority. Some junior lines are definitely not. We have our fair share of commuters, me being one of them. From my city alone I know at least 15 guys so I bet we are about like everywhere else. I senior in base as a FO, I bid top 10%. Last year I spent 120 days from home, 98% of my trips were commutable. I’ve been bypassing now for about a year because QOL is amazing for me. I have 3 kids too many. :)

4. Retirements for F9 don’t really pick up for about another five years. Then we average around 50-70 per year. So really nothing crazy there. I ran the numbers once, and came to the conclusion I would retire around 125 after a 35ish year career here.

5. I’ve been happy here. As of now I’m not tempted to move on. Usually LCC and ULCC thrive in a recession. Indigo managers aren’t the best at employee relations, but they know how to make money and be successful. Once they leave or we go public I think customer service, performance, public perception, and finally employee relations will improve. That being said it’s been a great place to work, I think it will only get better in the future.

Good luck!

Once they leave or we go public I think customer service, performance, public perception, and finally employee relations will improve. That being said it’s been a great place to work, I think it will only get better in the future.

Good luck![/QUOTE]

They aren’t going anywhere and there’s no reason for them to go public... they are going to build a worldwide network of ULCC carriers and as insane as this sounds, frontier will be their flagship carrier

They aren’t going anywhere and there’s no reason for them to go public... they are going to build a worldwide network of ULCC carriers and as insane as this sounds, frontier will be their flagship carrier[/QUOTE]

not saying your wrong but right now it will take 8/9 years for them to make what the company should be valued at (between 2 and 3 billion). After the pilots are cashed out an ipo is more likely. If that doesn’t happen shortly after (6/8 months) I would agree.

not saying your wrong but right now it will take 8/9 years for them to make what the company should be valued at (between 2 and 3 billion). After the pilots are cashed out an ipo is more likely. If that doesn’t happen shortly after (6/8 months) I would agree.[/QUOTE]

its all beans in the pot... right now they run the show and they don’t have a BOD or shareholders to answer to... if they figure out an IPO is more lucrative, they’ll probably do it but they’re trying to do something different now... it’s not a cash flip like spirit was...

its all beans in the pot... right now they run the show and they don’t have a BOD or shareholders to answer to... if they figure out an IPO is more lucrative, they’ll probably do it but they’re trying to do something different now... it’s not a cash flip like spirit was...[/QUOTE]

When they bought Frontier they basically said it was a cash flip, so who knows what their long term plan is. I’m guessing though, even if they stay long term, they will IPO.

When they bought Frontier they basically said it was a cash flip, so who knows what their long term plan is. I’m guessing though, even if they stay long term, they will IPO.

If days off are a priority over money, you can do this nicely once you're off of reserve.

We have to clock 70 hours six months out of the year, and 60 hours six months of the year. The company specifies in advance what months are what. With the add drop split swap flexibility, which is on a first come first serve basis, even a very junior line holder can, with some effort, manipulate his schedule to maximize pay or time off, or both in some cases.

PBS, when it comes, is going to change things a bit. We were told however that what I just described above would still be possible. In theory it should remain possible as we will keep the add drop swap split functionality and up to 4% of flying will be put into opentime, and of course you have all the sick calls, drops, and other organic opentime trips that come up to help it. We'll have to see.

For guys out of base, how commutable are the lines for say someone based in DFW? I'm in a similar position with young one at home and wanting to be home as much as I can. Thanks.

DFW
 

I dont mean to sound trite, and we certainly do have some DFW commuters....
Like any airline, its seniority based. RSV sucks. Your QoL will improve markedly as time goes by. We're growing very quickly, this year you could reasonably expect to go from schoolhouse to ~50% of base within a year..
I did it, even with the curtailed hiring in Spring..
As has been noted by other posters; 100h credit 18 off isn't hard..
//PL

The 60 / 70 hour requirement seems like a real burden. Even if flexibility is good, being forced to work and credit 60 - 70 hours every month is a bad deal in my opinion.
Even Spirit can drop to zero as a line holder if they want. Same at United. Not sure about AA or others, but come on, it would be unpaid of course.

Are there any other majors that require that much credit each month ?

being forced to work 60-70 credit hours a month is a burden?? YHGTBSM

thanks. I guess I should have clarified as I know RSV sucks no matter what. I guess my question was more along the lines of “is there a decent commutable reserve period where it will help make it tolerable or doable as the low man until you get a line.” I appreciate the responses.

How senior is Las Vegas for FO and Captain? Can an FO get Vegas after Training?

Yes you can as a FO. Junior captain is just over three and half years seniority.

On the commute question. Is there some.sort of.commiter protection if you get stuck? Like some of the regionals have?

Yes. You must have attempted 2 flights that arrive at least an hour prior to your report time.

Minor correction... the junior Vegas captain is just over 4 years seniority.

All bases are attainable short term as an FO. The junior bases for captains (in order of most junior first) are MIA, PHL, ORD, & MCO. LAS and DEN have both had captains involuntarily displaced out of them recently.

My guess is MCO is not attainable as a captain for a current new hire for at least 10 years. That is unless they grow it or open a TPA base.

Pretty sure Philly is still more junior than Miami as of the last captain award.

All of these numbers should be changing rapidly in theory right? The new planes have to go somewhere, so unless they continue to open up bases, current bases should grow. Especially MCO and DEN?

Rapid growth will fuel rapid change. We have problems with gate getting gates pretty much everywhere. I can see some growth with MCO, but not DEN. With DEN, you may be looking at a few hundred people that want to get back to denver after upgrading somewhere else. But who knows for sure.

its all beans in the pot... right now they run the show and they don’t have a BOD or shareholders to answer to... if they figure out an IPO is more lucrative, they’ll probably do it but they’re trying to do something different now... it’s not a cash flip like spirit was...[/QUOTE]

Spirit wasn’t supposed to be a cash flip, they only exited their investment in Spirit to raise capital to buy Frontier in cash. Frontier was nearly a full stake buy and was a bargain. Franke admitted this much, saying he first tried to get Spirit to purchase Frontier. Case in point, the only other large airline investment they’ve exited is Whizz, due to the recent changes in EU law for foreign ownership.

I think they knew a while back they had cash coming from Whizz and they no longer needed the IPO money from Frontier for their near-term investment strategy. Frontier won’t go public until they need cash again and the market for IPOs promotes it.

IMO, Indigo is here to stay and it could be a while before they take Frontier public.

Can anyone chime in with info on your ORD base? How long is reserve, how long until you can hold as a new fo, most junior captain, etc.

thank you!

The junior captains that were awarded LAS in the latest base trade have less than 4 years seniority. I guess technically, they will start there in April. The junior guy is just shy of being a 427 number.

Where do you see that? The Jr CA going to Vegas on the last base trade in January is way senior to a 427###. I've been here over 4 years now and can't hold LAS CA, especially while DEN is shrinking.

your looking at the bid not the award. Happens all the time. The jr guy to get awarded las captain on the base trade was an 11 thousand number. He’s been here 14 years. Las is growing senior fast on the captain side. That will continue as den shrinks unless another western base opens.

While the junior pilot may be in PHL I was talking more over-arching themes. I’m currently in the right seat but if I were in the left seat in PHL I’d be on reserve. Starting in April and based on the “what if” I would easily hold a line in MIA long before PHL.

Just looked at it again. You are right. My mistake.

I guess this would somewhat fall under QOL? I start class April 6th and was curious of the experience traveling with your family on the bennies. Do you current guys/gals find it pretty easy to non-rev with family on F9? I found good info in other posts about the program overall, but more interested in ease of use/success...

cheers!

Most of the flights will show full on the website but we have a high number of no shows. The only frustrating part about non revving on Frontier is the lack of frequencies and options.

Honestly if the schedule works for you like you live in base, our domestic benefits are unmatched since you’re not competing with anyone for non rev seats. I never used buddy passes when I had American benefits they were practically useless but I have friends and family use us all the time now.

The hidden gem are our 20% off tickets...we normally book RT fares for $23-35 per person. Checked and carry-ons are free.

This! Why play a non rev game when you can get tickets for $35

I non-rev, arguably more than most here, with my family and have never missed a flight in 3 1/2 years. Only twice were we not all sitting together. Usually 3-1 o 2-2. Never scattered. And 85% of the time, we’re in stretch seating. I’ve had non-rev benefits on 5 other airlines, including a legacy, and Frontier is by far the best in the industry, as far as I’m concerned, at utilizing non-rev benefits.

The only real issue at F9 is our dartboard-like schedule.

I’d also like to add that our F/A’s have been stellar at “taking care” of us as non-rev. But ALWAYS have your credit card out and ready, just in case.

By far the best benefit, as others have mentioned, is our EZ20 positive space ticket. 20% off the lowest fare, assigned seats, and 2 checked, 1 carry-on+personal item. Can’t be beat AFAIC.

apparently, we can now do it on ID90travel, but I haven’t figured out how to do it yet.

Best way is to call reservations and let them know you’re booking an EZ20. I’ve ran into agents that don’t know what they’re doing, though. Best thing to do is hang up and call back as trying to explain it just adds to further confusion and frustration.

Thanks. Figured it out and deleted my question, but you have good addition info...

The company said the EZ20 online booking feature would be available sometime in the 1st quarter and they would let us know. Haven’t seen anything further about it yet.

as for calling reservations, there’s a specific number to call to avoid getting someone who doesn’t know how to book EZ20 tickets. The number is in the pass bureau section of the intranet site.

FO reserve time in PHL?