Vote of no confidence?
 

I have no idea what I'm talking about or if this is even possible but something has to be done. How can we just let management keep going on with their blunders? Is there anything the union can do? FAA safety hotline? Crew feedback forms are obviously worthless. We are over here doing section 19s for sick calls during a pandemic and management is, well, you know. So what can we do? And no, don't say leave. Actually have a constructive thought because I honestly believe in this model but it's going to take at least the tiniest bit of caring in the customer service department.

This needs to happen asap. It’s a joke here. I wish we knew more of what is going on. People are leaving here more than triple the rate of another carrier.

if anyone is involved with any situation that could cause a safety issue, far violation etc we need to fill out asap’s At least at that point there is a “paper trail” the faa can follow. Obviously they don’t care we (or alpa) think but they cannot ignore the faa!

If you think this is bad, just wait.

Things are just fine. You think management cares if we have to wait a long time to get a hold of scheduling? Planes are still flying, tickets are being sold. We are far from a crisis. Check back this summer to see some real carnage

Southwest, JetBlue and Spirit all had mass cancelations this past week. Their management teams aren't going anywhere and neither is ours

Work to live……..

do NOT live to work….

Yesterday, the JAX to SJU flight boarded with no crew. No one cared to tell the gate agents the crew was being deadheaded up from MCO and there was a 4 hour delay even though scheduling knew since the night before. Understandably, people on the plane were ****ed when they learned the news.

But I mean something so simple as that, that's beyond dropping the ball. Pure, utter, incompetence. That's no way to run ANY business.

Great mantra and all but we are doing this, away from our families, 3 or 4 days a week (if not commuting), every week....over holidays, birthdays, etc. It would be nice if....idk....somebody at any level did their job?

I know NK B6 SWA had problems too, but we aren't them. We have a little over 100 planes. There's no excuse for being a little more prepared with such a comparatively small operation. Who would have thought weather would occur in the SE during the spring? Came out of nowhere

Fiscally (and unfortunately since I hate the disservice to pax) they only need to get their act together if other airlines are. UA which has plenty of growth issues right now seems to be on the war path in selected areas and is doing better than others with irregular ops. They plan an almost 70% increase in flying in DEN over the next few years. So in that light, yes F9 can't rely on their current system if they want to continue to compete. Status quo in any industry can be deadly. Time to get the popcorn out. Size can help efficiency and synergy in the merger but it must be acted on. Doesn't look like the desire is there at the moment but when they start realizing the impacts, being a publicly traded company, heads should roll. Time for F9 to put big boy pants on eh?

Meme time...

Operations in MCO is run by contractors on three computers running Saber in a room about the size of my walk in closet. Go down and look for yourself, it's unbelievable. They have a hard time keeping things straight on a sunny day let alone a massive line of thunderstorms. Nothing is going to change unless management gets serious about how this place functions. I talked with one of our previous FAA inspectors who told me I wouldn't believe the stories he would tell me about the way this airline is run if he could. This kind of stuff, the wide cast dragnet style of discipline we've seen with section 19's and the like over the years, as well as the total incompetence of our director of training and his pal the VP of Flight Ops all lead straight uphill to where the smell is emanating from, Big BB himself. He was unaware of how bad things were (and are still) going at the schoolhouse and I doubt he has any clue regarding the details of these operational issues we are constantly battling. I've harbored a hope that as the 5th largest airline in the nation after our merger that economies of scale would force a change in the manner in which we operate (Persian bazaar in a sandstorm) but then I just have to laugh at myself when I remember who is running this place. Until that changes expect more of the same.

just saying…….
the root problem is staffing. SOC, dispatch, MX, CREW SCHEDULING, gate, ramp, cabin crews, flight crews………..
Indigo will never staff for the need …

Exactly my point. "Until that changes" so alright, let's make that change. Let's get these people out of here. Let's clean house. How do we do that? How do we get change? A petition? A picket? There has to be a way.

Time for a new episode of Under Cover Boss!!
😂

I'm sorry dude, but we aren't going to flush upper management out of here. Indigo will pick who runs the show, not us.

No doubt staffing is a big part of the problem.

Indigo is always going to run this place lean. That's just fully baked into the business plan. However, staffing is a big problem across the entire economy right now. Nothing about the current staffing levels is surprising if you pay attention to what's going on in the rest of the country. Literally every business in America is hiring and understaffed right now.

The problem is that we can't even staff the lean levels they want. When we are running even leaner than they want, it's going to be rough. This is a much bigger problem then just us. Look around and embrace the sh*t show

You’re right. BB and company couldn’t care less about what the pilots think. They have another group to appease….the shareholders. And considering ULCC is down over 40% since it’s IPO just 12 months ago, they definitely have some explaining to do.

Ok, so this place sucks. We know it. The passengers know it. Hell, I think even BB knows it. All the way down the line. This is a sh/ty airline.

And there’s not much we can do. File a grievance maybe but that needs to be vs a specific work rule. Perhaps the passengers will revolt - nope, the prices are too cheap and most have short memories (Thank God).

The one reprise we DO possess is that the company must pay you for their incompetence. I will admit, I do get frustrated while standing at the gate with my crew to find out the inbound aircraft is 4-6 hours late - something I should have been informed of while still at the hotel - and I’m probably gonna time out. I can get my own hotel after 90 minutes of waiting but that means I’m doing their job. Going online and looking for a room when most are booked with passengers we just canceled on. So, I’ll wait 6 to 9 hours to get ahold of scheduling and get a hotel room booked for us. Because I remember 5 hours of extra pay after 0200. An additional vacation day after 1600 and midnight the days following.

We’ve all seen premium trips being offered when crews were available (either reserve or sitting because of a cancellation elsewhere). Plenty of times I’ve been short an FA and another (who still has duty day) volunteers to fly only to be denied.

I just smh. And take a screenshot of my updated schedule with the new credit total. This last weekend was about 10 hours of flying but 25+ hours of credit and 2 days of vaca. I don’t whine - i bank…

And always always always remember, just because you work for a sh/ty airline does not make YOU sh/ty as well.

This has been a Dracir1 public service announcement. All rights reserved. Any and all donations are willfully accepted…

workers being “contract” or company have very little incentive to “help out” or “give the extra effort” when mgmnt DOESNT CARE LESS

Excellent post...

I agree to extent with what was said. With that I'll say, I don't want the 5 hours or the vacation day, I want competence. I want to pull into a gate on a "scheduled" flight with an acars in range followed by an ops radio call on the ground to find that I actually do have wing walkers, AND a jetway driver, AND wheel chairs. Not a constant barrage of apologies to the passengers.

Nothing more demoralizing than making up time leg after leg to only be delayed leg after leg. While I agree that being compensated for it is nice, that doesn't negate the fact that it needs to get fixed. Fire someone for taking a 2 dollar mini but we will pay 5 hours and bonus vacation days, plus the fuel to sit and wait for said wing walkers.... I'd rather things just went smoothly than to get paid more.

Seriously why would anyone stay? You are either going to get destroyed in a SLI with JB or Spirit or get left out in the cold if they merge. Management hates you. Every major all over the country is desperately hiring. Bases to meet all needs. More money, better contracts. You have to be ----- to stay.

Yes you are correct management absolutely LOVES pilots at Delta, United, and American!

Dont get me wrong - I LOATHE incompetence.

But we work for the sloppy version of Wal Mart. Maybe not even that - more like Family Dollar. It didn’t used to be this way but it is now. I certainly WANT us to be better, but when someone shows you who they are time and time again, believe them!

Did I write that? Oh, no, I just feel that way about 1000%.

I arrived several minutes late the other night in DEN after making up for a cluster**** of a boarding and bag loading process at the origin, which should have left us a bit less than 45mins to turn the full 321 for our outbound flight. The apparent ONE ground crew was busy trying to get a plane out one gate over. We waited like a half hour on the Alpha North line waiting for them to finish up with them, push, etc. before they could stroll on over the vast distance, find about 3 or 4 good wands, and guide us in. Why have one late DEN departure (other plane) when you can turn that into the ill-will of 230ish 1/2 hour for no reason waiting pax, 2 late DEN departures, and our late arrival down-route? See, you can take advantage of a bad situation and multiply the incompetence...God bless us...

Cheers!

Your quote is worthy of a T-shirt slogan. “Look around and embrace the sh*t show”. I’m thinking about making a T-shirt with your quote with your permission.

Lol. I hold no patent on that

I wish DS (svp commercial) would elevate to CEO. That dude is very smart and seems to have a level head on his shoulders.

latest round of section 19 hearings began last week…I got invited for having the audacity to hold off boarding with no logbook nor firm return to service guesstimate……what a world!

You get disciplined for making decisions? I dont even think my regional is that bad. And they pretty much suck too.

YGBFKM.. Are there any more details to that? I would have done the same thing. When I upgraded BL said that "they trusted our judgement and the calls we would make on the line" or something to that effect.What B.S. How did this rise to the top off the cesspool to get sniffed out, scooped up, and examined under the microscope of a section 19? I mean an incident like that is just a raindrop in a hurricane, honestly.

Please post again after the hearing to tell us how it went.

You should remind them that it frequently takes a long time to get a return to service even after the logbook has been signed off and you didn't want to risk a tarmac delay waiting for mtx control to click a button on their computer screen

Best of luck to you

If this is true, where in the heck is the union!?

Who did you pi$$ off?

So maybe I’m misunderstanding something. How is that a Section 19 offense? Not boarding while out of service? What actual CBA or FOM policy was broken? What specifically was cited for having done (or not do)?

My thoughts exactly.

I would be careful about putting specific information on this website that allows management to figure out who you are. You don’t want to tie your reps hands.

Excellent point. Aside from that, they have nothing on you based on what you posted. If this BS keeps up Frontier Airlines is about to become "Frontier Flight Training Academy, where your path to the Legacy Airlines begins!"

Right. Better to keep it that way.

Eh. To some degree.

Many talk about leaving but few (with more than 6 to 9 years here) do. It’s basically a bad marriage and the divorce is super costly.

We just won’t grow…

The FO's I write letters for have all gotten hired at legacies (obviously due to my exemplary wordsmithing) a couple were right on the cusp of upgrade. I'm in your 6 to 9 year group and you are exactly right about me, divorce is too costly.