Base seniority/progression info
 

I hope to keep this somewhat updated for those thinking of coming over and so we don’t keep getting the same questions over and over about base progression. It may have errors but it will be pretty close.

Also of note, ORD closes in May so expect some small changes in the coming months.

Thank you so much for this.

Pay
 

If you were on reserve not flying at all. But picking up open time. Will that count above the min guarantee? For example: 75 hours min guarantee haven’t flown while on reserve but pickup open time credit say of 20 hours will those 20 hours be on top of 75? So 95 for the month?

Yes. You will get straight pay up until 82 hours. At that point every hour you pick up is 125% pay. So for your example, since you picked up 20 hours your new pay would be worth 98.25 hours. Reserve is payed out whether you fly or not.

PHX
 

Thank you appreciate it! Got the scoop on PHX? Junior Captain, lineholder, reserve etc. TIA!

The base doesn’t open until Nov according to current plans so it’s impossible to say for sure. Since LAS and DEN are senior bases the thinking is PHX will be too.

Is LAS a small base?

3rd largest about 115 crews

That’s good to hear, are there a lot of 4 day trips?

Is it over 2 years to hold a line at LAS?

Look on the bright side, the junior guy is probably doing all red-eyes....

While it looks that way on the surface the answer is no. There was nobody hired from 3/2020-6/2022. So it’s closer to 9-12 months. It’s a strange base where some months the most junior pilots in the base get a line when a bunch of more senior people like to sit reserve. It’s odd.

Also of note there are a bunch of commuters in Vegas from DEN and PHX. When PHX opens in Nov., if all goes according to plan, then that will clear out Vegas a bit and help bring the time on reserve down.

Unless they shrink DEN to grow PHX, which is a definite possibility.

Yes that would suck.

Or if they cancel/postpone the opening of PHX because attrition is so high they can’t staff a new base.

It’s not at the current time. We only need 140 more pilots to have appropriate staffing by year end. That does not include the 40+ arriving this week.

Not to be too optimistic here but we are currently filling classes of 48 so staffing shouldn't be that big of a problem.

PHX opening will definitely pull a lot of guys out of LAS making LAS go more junior. PHX will be more senior im sure.

And they aren't going to shrink DEN, at least not permanently. They just secured a bunch more gates in DEN.

(that's my daily dose of optimism)

That also doesn't include the 1 pilot resigning each day according to the union.

I am interested to know about this too. I've heard it takes around 6 months to hold Vegas after DOH. How many months after being LAS based would it take to hold a line?

Are these lines commutable? I would be commuting from SAN.

You're going to be doing red-eyes, so, yes they're always commutable on the front side. A lot of these same trips get back to LAS at, or after 10PM, so not commutable on the backside for most cities.

Check post 12 for the first question

Brickhut covered part deux

Red-eye back to DEN... Employee bus

Red-eye back to ding-dongville…reading comprehension. He was asking about LAS and commuting from SAN, specifically.

I guess you could add PHL, CVG, DTW, CLE, CLT, etc..etc.., but, then, you wouldn’t be based in LAS now, would ya?

I waited until today specifically to respond to this. When the April class was added to Flica we had 1733 on the seniority list. We got down to 1710 until today when the newest class was added. We are now at 1753. So the semi official tally for pilots leaving was 23 in April.

Worse than the 15-18 I assumed but better than the 30 a month the Union quoted. This is a very small sample size though and subject to change of course. Pilot attrition is still a problem. I assume we agree on that.

I agree with this information. I have been keeping track since last year.


Seniority List (As of May 1, 2022)

Date - Pilots (-/+ Loss/Gain)

05/01/2021-1573

06/01/2021-1568 (-5)

07/01/2021-1593 (+25)

08/01/2021-1620 (+27)

09/01/2021-1639 (+19)

10/01/2021-1668 (+29)

11/01/2021-1684 (+16)

12/01/2021-1694 (+10)

01/01/2022-1708 (+14)

02/03/2022-1718 (+10)

03/01/2022-1721 (+3) (80 LOA’s / 10 Management)

04/01/2022-1748 (+27) (80 LOA’s / 10 Management)

05/05/2022-1765 (+17) (93 LOA’s / 10 Management)

In 1 year, we have netted approximately 192 pilots

(Net 150 pilots or an average of 16 pilots a month)

Good info, thanks for your time!!

Thanks for putting all that together

I still don’t know what to make of these numbers. I try to look at it from a pilot perspective as well as a company perspective. On one hand we are more or less keeping enough pilots for current growth. On the other hand we are going to need to increase that number as growth increases, and I’m not sure they can do it if things remain the same.
My other question is how much does this rate of churn cost the company in hiring, training, etc. Why not use that energy and money to work on our culture and put more money in the pockets of current and continuing Frontier pilots? I know the easy answer is Franke/BB…but making money and increasing the stock value is the most important thing, and they are failing miserably at that. Something has to give…

I agree and even though it’s still sub par I was happy to see the rate increase to $75 for the first year guys. It means they at least know and acknowledge there is a problem.

TPA senior or ?
 

How difficult is it to get TPA as a base?

Not difficult at all.

Some people in the latest new hire class went to TPA.

Thanks for the info.

Updated numbers

thanks for the update. Just for some clarification—does this show that any base except DEN is attainable for a new hire FO within one month?

and are domicile transfers bid for/awarded every month?

Pretty much every base except DEN is attainable for new guys. The company will publish a vacancy when you are in training to place the new hires. They could have any bases on there. Generally there will be a vacancy every month that you could bid on. In addition, there are "base trades" too

Got it. Good to know, thanks!

Past performance doesn’t guarantee future performance but yes you should see any base you want except Denver within 6 months.

You’ll notice I only post data for those that have completed training. So in reality it’s probably more like most get MIA or TPA while in training but by the time training is complete or very soon after they are in their preferred base.

PHX should show up on a base bid in about three months and everything will change again.

That was my next question, whether you can expect multiple domicile awards while still in training. Makes sense. Thanks!

There’s a known recruiter here that works with the other majors. I’m sure he knows about 50-75 of F9 pilots that are in the pool at United and Delta. May, June, July there will be some massive losses to the legacies. They are all backlogged at the moment and the classes currently running are from February hire dates.