This. If I were pax I’d rather see my pilot looking jacked and maybe a touch of douchey (probably because they’re proud of what they’ve achieved) than sloppy, untailored, fat/unhealthy.

Scrapeaddy beat me to it, but sorry for every “complaint” of someone wearing clothes someone thinks are tailored-too-close, there’s the overweight guy wearing pants and shirts which are sizes too large, unflatteringly cut and fitting, with the archetypal new balance shoes and giant otterbox phone strapped to his belt. Clothes that actually fit well, look lightyears better. Doesn’t have to be skin tight, but an in-shape guy wearing fitted modern cut looks better than an out-of-shape guy wearing a circus tent.

and like I said, everyone comes out to slap down a beard. No, there wouldn’t be beard-growing competitions. Some guys will dabble, and grow out of it if you pardon the pun, and go back to normal. Some of us would be so relieved to have a well-manicured beard. I’ve done it for years. It suits me better than cuts, nicks, ingrown hairs, razor burn, and all the red irritated bumps from sensitive skin.

wrinkled up shirts, shirts not fully tucked in. I mean you can go pretty deep.

I don’t disagree with your first part. There are extremes to both ends. There’s nothing wrong with a modern cut shirt and a tailored uniform. Nobody’s uniform pieces should be worn “out of the box”. Mine certainly aren’t. That’s what tailors are for. But there’s a difference between a modern touch to the traditional uniform and completely bastardizing the uniform. The person I described was on the extreme end and the way they were dressed is unacceptable in this profession. A well tailored shirt and pants with a half break with black DRESS shoes is still professional. A skin tight uniform shirt with nearly non existent sleeves, capri pants, and fuzzy sketchers is *never* acceptable.

To your second point, I mean no disrespect, but you’re barely off of IOE. You have no idea of the pilot group or our personality. We have an amazing group of pilots here, but it is full of good ‘ole boys who don’t give a poop. Still great people, but following uniform standards to appropriately represent the profession isn’t quite something that they consider before leaving the house (a large amount are contained in the aforementioned DEN base).

Truth be told, after many years here, I’ll be making room in the left seat for another captain upgrade and leaving the animal. I have loved every minute with all of the people I’ve worked with here over the years and the pilot group is what I’ll miss the most. However, the idea of them complying with any sort of standards if allowed to grow beards makes me chuckle.

Hahahaha no. It wasn’t Crispy. I actually had the opportunity to fly with him and he was actually a pretty good dude and a good pilot. I’d fly with him again in a heartbeat.

Retiring or leaving?

My money is that he’s leaving for UA….

I keep hearing about this Chrispy guy. Can anyone PM the link to guys platform. I am curious to see what everyone in RGS was talking about.

I assume so as well. If you are under 15 years with more than 10 years left and can take the pay hit I would 100% do the same. Only caveat is if you believe there will be a furlough in the next 5 years. I think there will be but just a guess based on history and the direction our economy is going.

If there is a furlough coming, the F9 will most certainly furlough just like everyone else. In fact, we’ll prob furlough a higher percentage than most others.

Staying for the seniority makes sense on one hand, but not on the other…

This is math I haven’t seen yet….the less than 15 with more than 10. This is a MASSIVE portion of our seniority list.

there is only one problem with the “history” part. We haven’t seen hiring like this in decades. I’m not even sure the rapid expansion of the airlines at the start of the jet age seen such a brisk hiring environment so this isn’t a comparable time. Could there be a major economic crash and a furlough. Sure, but it would probably be short lived. The shape of the economy right now, in reality the airlines should be in a down turn “ (I think that is what franke and Barry are/were gambling on) but they aren’t. Bookings and pax loads are going strong. If you have more then 15 years left and you don’t really want to spend it at a ulcc. It’s time to bail. Get the seniority now.

We do not reach the peak of attrition retirements for another 3 years. Then it’s 5 more years of what we have today. I ask you- what is the logical conclusion for Frontier, Allegiant, Avelo, Breeze and possibly even Southwest (who wants to hire over 2000 this year)?

Rhetorical or no?

Everyone has an opinion and I don’t think anyone can reliably predict much beyond a year, but some are going out of business, some are going to merge, some are going to merge and then go out of business.

I’m guessing you are implying that the LCCs are going to struggle and not make it based on hiring and retention. I would worry about regionals long before any Major. Might be important to note we actually had to slow down hiring for the time being. Turns out there’s still enough pilots to go around.

Dramatic much? Although there may be short-term struggles to staff, don’t forget that we haven’t really even begun to see any airline really get creative to attract candidates. From potential home-basing schemes, unlimited commuter hotels, straight-up, fully-paid ab-initio programs, better pay rates (better even than the legacies) - we haven’t even seen the start of what could be coming if some of these airlines truly start to get desperate.

I specifically was referring to those living in DEN. But the same could be said for anyone commuting from a legacy base to a f9 base.

Agreed. I would just add that the pipeline of new pilots is still running strong. ATP is cranking out pilots as fast as they can, all the university flight programs are full and the hundreds of mom and pop flight schools around the country are doing the same. New pilots are being created constantly

That isn’t exactly working in the Pilot groups favor…..but I digress….

No, definitely not. But it's reality.

Whenever I see discussions about pilot shortages, hiring, retirements and growth, no one ever talks about the other end of the issue. How many new pilots are being licensed? How busy are the flight schools? There's two sides to the equation.

There's no doubt the pilot market is in our favor this time though. And we must capitalize on it. This contract may be our best shot at making big gains

The good news is no matter how bad management or an individual’s may want it, not just anyone can go zero to hero. It’s actually a pretty small percentage. Not to mention commuting, being gone, health, etc. It’s a supplement, not an end all solution.

Even pilot mills like ATP are churning out pilots, that doesn't matter if none of them stay past 2 years.... If F9 was a career destination for most, they would get better pilots and better respect for the company, instead of the disdain from the pilot group they currently get.

So i guess you should ask the question do they want this place to be a career destination? I'm not convinced they want a lot of +12 year captains, or career FOs.

This is why Southwest is hiring so many this year, its not just retirements, many are leaving for legacy carriers.

And kind of again…what’s your point? Every pilots situation is different and chasing money, upgrades, or widebodies may or may not cost you in the end. There is no way to know. Go where you think you’ll be happy enough and hope for the best.

You mentioned airlines may merge and go out of business. Ya, a lot of things MAY happen. What if the the recession finally catches up to our industry and we have a slowdown? What if the LCCs continue to grow at 20% per year during an extended recession but the legacies shrink? What if it’s the other way around? What if F9 pauses aircraft retirements or shift aircraft orders from Wizz/Volaris/Jetsmart or another carrier and accelerate growth? What if F9 defers orders and slows growth? What if a furlough is necessary at one shop but not another? What if we all furlough? What if AA can’t pay their debt like they hope? What if they can? What if SWA gets widebody rates? What if other LCCs match those rates? What if 321XLRs begin to replace widebodies on international routes? What if Rice beats Texas? What if age 67 passes and all of the sudden the pilot shortage is over for just long enough for all of the pilot mills to be fully up and running? What if 67 and a slowdown happen at the same time? We are all just guessing.

Everything you said is wrong.

Not impossible but tough to be wrong on a question but okay. Again Tom help me out….what is your point?

Let's try to stay on target.

Heard Breeze pay scale for the 220 tops at $280…….. ?

it does. We are the lowest paid airline just above allegiant now.

wow…..LETS GO BRANDON…… I mean BARRY!

Dry humor

For your viewing pleasure

Is Breeze even unionized? Do they have a CBA? Or is it just a free for all work rules/QOL over there?

I thought they voted ALPA in after a year but may be mistaken.

Edit: ALPA august 2022

Yup. And they get stock options.

200 shares is nothing to be excited about.

Pay scale jumps in year 2 and then in year 12. In between years are what you should look closer at.

But we have a quicker upgrade and we get weekends off quicker.