CLE Base
 

New worst base in the system?

-Not really a hub for UA any more, so commuting from somewhere that isn't a major city is a big pain.

-Not really a place that people want to move to.

-Winter season can be brutal.

Way to go F9, this knocks it out of the park. Surely this will help stem attrition!

I know the rumor is a displacement from Vegas but I could see a small displacement from a lot of bases for this. Every base flies to CLE so you could pull the CLE turns/ flights out of every other base.

Just thinking. Don't know anything

From this thread: https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/f...ml#post3682486


I always had the guess and opinion CLE would be it.

Now the next guess is "how" they staff it. My guess is which ever base has reserves "sitting around" with not much flying may be a base in the gun sights for displacement to CLE.

Company news release says "110 pilots" : https://news.flyfrontier.com/frontie...ional-airport/

Now, if monthly class sizes can be larger than monthly outflows.....

Added edit:

A preliminary look at commute options reflect that a "multi-leg commute" may be necessary to get into CLE. This is not PHX nor MCO. CLE has less options

Slowly moving towards the goal of adopting the Allegiant-ish model... commuters shall not be pleased, but should improve F9's reliability for pax.

My base has lots of crews who live in MI, IN, OH that have been hoping for a CLE base. You may be surprised by how many people want CLE.

ATL has a good bit who would want CVG.... Union has published a map of our pilots. Idk why the company doesnt choose to look at that and see who is where.

oh, i know why, they dont care.

Either way, seeing a couple new bases after CLE would be nice and if we grow, they wont be too small.

This makes the inevitable Spirit - Frontier merger (yeah, I said it) that much easier to swallow for me at least. Like a delicious "bite of an apple."

Edited to point out the obvious sarcasm.

We'll look good together eating < industry standard apples.

Any thoughts on what upgrade time at CLE would be after the displacement? Seems like average is around 3 years from what i read on FFpilots. Im at 1450 hours (650 jet 135/91k), ATP Scheduled in January....Frontier wasnt on my target list until they opened CLE..which is about as close to living in domicile that im gonna get. Im just wondering if with being a newer base upgrade time would be quicker? New to this..trying to figure it out all out.

UA is option to, with about a year upgrade on 737 but something tells me once all the continental carryovers retire they'll make that go away as a base. Not sure they'd look at me this early anyhow.

Thoughts?

BB already said we're not gonna pursue Spirit if/when their merger fails.

I believe him... for now.

I imagine CLE will always be fairly junior.

Haven't looked as I have zero interest but what does the Chicago - Cleveland commute look like?

Keep in mind, a displacement comes w/ paid for travel costs...

Upgrades will likely be sub 2 years moving forward. By the time you get a few hundred on the bus at F9, United should call you back for an interview.

The REAL question is - will the Big 3 still be hiring in 3 years (when most of the newly hired come off their training contract/loan/interest bearing gift/whatever you wanna call it?

what makes you believe upgrades will be sub two years when they have been longer than that and very small class sizes? The company can't grow and there ar very few retirements. Won't they just displace captains as needed?

In the most recent system bid, the most junior upgrade went to 435#’s. Not taking the time to look, I assume that is around a 2 year upgrade. With the amount of displacements and realignments about to happen, unless a base was just announced in your city, senior fo’s that were bypassing upgrade, will likely continue to. Just my two cents but I assume it will go more junior.

As of now PF is correct. The current Whatif shows a Dec ‘21 hire getting the junior upgrade spot in CLE. 4 months more junior than last months bid.

whatever dip occurs in upgrade time will be short lived. The airline is not growing and that's what's needed to really bring it down. It will go back to a trickle again once the new bases are sized the way they want.

Welllllllll in Nov of ‘22 we had a high number of 1935 vs 2112 this month. 8.5% growth.

In Nov ‘22 we had 115 aircraft vs 134 today. 14% growth.

you're math checks, but upgrades stop over winter and go to about 6-10 per month in the summer. I've been here a year and I'm 350 numbers away. It will take another 4-5 years.

Certainly possible. However, we need 283 pilots by end of June ‘24. I would expect to see upgrades closer to 20 a month very soon. Attrition still has to be helping you get there faster as well?

Round about guessing your seniority number in the 1700s and then assuming 30% bypass upgrade you should have first option to upgrade by end of 2024. That assumes 0% attrition.

lower than 1650 seniority. If upgrades are like you say then it's a matter of how long to be awarded back home again.

Insert Chris Farley no idea meme.

ha!! If my base continues to exist that is. A shift toward east coast operations seems real.

Plenty of flights, but be aware that in Ohare the UAL gates and AA gates are a mile apart. Buy a good pair of walking shoes and maybe a step counter!

I guess that’ll make me 3/3! Thanks for playing!

base to base can be tough (united) if your offline jumpseating

You really think there will be a PHX closure?

If they're really all in on increasing bases no way they close any. PHX is as safe as any with the available gates and maintenance.

This whole base thing does make me nervous though. If this doesn't work, it's going to be very painful to walk it back. I don't know how you would really recover.

No.
https://simpleflying.com/frontier-ai...eptember-2023/

Ive read this article but BB and BL seem hell bent on going in a new direction while simultaneously creating a miserable work environment.

All bases that they pick will always be in the top 20 of popular cites. I can’t see that causing to much of a disruption.
Anythings possible however.

of course not.

they don't reduce in cities with a Booming economy, growing population, etc

Just like this one: https://www.statesman.com/story/business/2018/02/08/frontier-airlines-adding-nonstop-flights-from-austin-to-14-new-cities/10384058007/

So, I'm thinking about transitioning back to 121 work and the new CLE base is interesting because I'd have a short drive to get to work (i.e. no commute). What does a daily schedule look like now (on 2,3,4 day trips) versus how many legs a day they are looking at crews doing if the out and back model is fully implemented? Are they pushing crews to the max duty limits or is it something less? I'm tracking it's all subject to change, but rough order of magnitude would be a great help. Looking at all the good and bad aspects via the other threads, but don't know what I don't know at this point (or just haven't found the answer yet). I spent time at a regional, so fairly familiar from that persepective, but it's been a awhile since I left.

Thanks!

Most trips are 5-6 days. 4-7 legs per day. Min rest.

Bold move Cotton.

Currently our average block per day is pretty high - I think it’s north of 6 hours, and mostly 2-3 legs per day. To be honest, no one knows how this is going to look in 4-6 months when these new bases are implemented.

Not much of a difference from what I'm doing now, except I've never done more than 5 legs in a single day...lol!

As much as we complain and are treated like crap by management, it's still 100% better than 135 and I'd highly recommend trying to come if you live near CLE.