Bb “ 20-30% pay increase with concessions”
 

Attached is a link to the Barclay conference with BB talking about frontier. During this conference pressed on the subject of pilot compensation he stated he only expects 20-30 percent increases in pilot compensation to be competitive with concessions in flexibility stating that frontier has a flexibility to their schedule beyond any other carriers.

During this conference He also let slip we would be increasing focus on packing product together for business travel even adding routes to DC.

This is 20-30% | 25% wages:

120-130 bottom 125

177-192 for 6year Fo 183

277-300 6 year Ca 290

324-351 top 337


https://ir.flyfrontier.com/news-and-events/events/

Sorry BB. 0% chance we take any significant concessions. And it's 35% and rising...

We will really need to stand strong and vote it down like United’s group did or hope our reps do not allow this to go to vote. After the last contract voting results I could see people voting in anything that isn’t egregious.

AA, UA and SW all turned down first proposals.


Spirit accepted first 💩 that the company offered.

Side note, union already agreed to one concession. FDO lines are gone

OP thanks for posting, I forgot about this conference. To be fair, the interviewer put the 20-30% number out there, not BB. And BB replied it "kind of" gets you in that range. Everything is a negotiation, if we want United's contract we may have to give up 125 over 82 to get their pay rates. If we want their LTD we may have to give up our drop/swap/split flexibility. These can both be viewed as concessions OR improvements, depending on how its spun. No mediator in the world is going to side with us asking for only the best things of every other airline contract while keeping our own favorite nuggets. The vote is in our hands but the expectations have to be reasonable.

Where did they give up FDO lines?? I didn't see anything about that.

This right here. ^

​​​​​Negotiations updates #22 item #6

That was a company proposal, not an agreement.

BB himself pinned the figure at about 25% pretty early in the interview. Starts at about 11:30. (I know I'm plane deaf, but I didn't hear 20-30%. Maybe someone can give a time stamp for that?)

Interviewer: "I think, you know, a lot of the airline stocks trade at deep value multiples we could argue. Um, but I think part of the challenge with a lot of investors here is that, this is more of an industry issue, but the things that we supposedly can control like costs and labor inflation, those have been going pretty high for the industry post-pandemic, I know you guys have an open labor contract with your pilots right now how do you expect to manage what most likely be higher wages for your pilot workforce?"

BB: "Yeah so look, we we we put out our labor guide including labor costs, and we said that it'd be about a quarter of a penny."

25% is an absolute "NO" from me.

BB also mentioned we'd be ground loading in Denver later this year.

it’s near the end of the video.


28:00 to get the full talk at the end of the video about labor costs


28:30 bb mentions needing the 20-30% to be competitive wages. Then he says that we have to have competitive work rules and talks about how he is inferring some of that money back through changes in work rules.

BB can say anything he wants. The union can PROPOSE anything they want.

It is up to US to decide our own fate. I can't imagine the same pilot body that accepted the current contract will accept anything less than the INDUSTRY average which has already been determined.

And, btw, concessions are LOSSES. We shouldn't LOSE anything. FDO lines should stay. Everything in this next contract should be as is or BETTER.

Again, it's not up to anyone but US. The pilots. Whatever we end up getting in the next contract cycle is our fault (or triumph).

Thank you very much.

We don't need to give up our work rules just because mgmt says so. We are light years behind legacies and SWA wrt section 1, 3, 27, and 28. ALPAs proposal has even become outdated compared to industry standard since SWAs contract came out. Asking for an industry standard contract with industry leading work rules with no concessions is a very modest goal in my opinion.

A quarter penny and 25% are not the same thing. I think he's talking a quarter penny with regards to affect on CASM or EPS.

Yeah, I sure hope we all have the unity to vote NO on any substandard contract.

I am EXTREMELY afraid of those who are just here as a stepping stone though. Many of them are already showing their intentions by posting their pick up requests on the trade board, taking anything and everything, premium at flat credit, etc.

It seems like over 70% of classes have no intentions of staying and are upset they aren't flying on reserve because they want hours to move on. Numbers from resignations are about in line with losing 70% or so also.

He answered after a direct question about pilot wages. Maybe he dodged the question?

Nevertheless, quarter penny or 25% still gets a no from me.

Thanks for the clarification.

When Delta crushed it and set the tone for pattern barganing agreeing to a 30% raise, 18% DC, 18 hr long call, ect. did they give up their work rules to do it?

That’s an honest question. What did they lose?

How does Frontier's net revenue compare to other airlines? Is it closer to other LCC/ULCC's, closer to the three biggest legacy airlines, or somewhere in the middle?

I'm sure you're trolling but we probably bring in the least revenue of any airline

Please Mr B. just a quarter penny for me family to buy some potatoes from the trash . Maybe you can spare some grizzle from your pot roast you eat every day . Please please .

We have some better work rules, schedule flexibility and better vacation then they do.

The concessions we are likely to face will be small and inconsequential. Our NC is excellent and has excellent support from ALPA national. Trust our NC, they know what they are doing.

This is going to be a long, tough fight but they have a plan and are executing it. We already have a mediator assigned to us after just 6 months.

We need it with the amount of commuting required and the new day trip model moving the cost of hotels from the company to the pilots.

That wasn’t my point though. My point was, to my knowledge, Delta didn’t have to give up anything to make an industry leading contract. If we only intend to match them why should we give an inch?

I am also generally pleased with the results thus far. Fairly decent communication and entering mediation asap.

not trolling, honest question. Frontier doesnt generate revenue on par with American, Delta or United, but they also don't have the same level of expenses. After the bills are paid, where does Frontier's net results compare to other airlines on a per seat basis to factor in the discrepancies in company sizes? Genuinely curious.

Revenue isn't the best apples-to-apples comparison. Better using net profit margin. In that case, F9 didn't lose as much during the pandemic as the legacies, but since the recovery we've lagged almost all the competition.

Frontier 12-year Captain pay: $270.07 X 1.30 = 351.09

Current Delta 12-year Captain pay on Airbus 320 = 351.89

30% would bring it industry standard

Did Barry say this ? Did the word "thirty" (come from his lips? ?

Note that 20% is below "Big-3" but not much

I don't think Barry is that stupid to say this in public. It could have been taken out of context but nobody we know was in the room.

Don't believe it until you see it in a TA. That being said, the real value of a contract isn't the Section III portion anyways.

My wife disagrees.

For a while Frontier was one of the most profitable airlines in the world. That's no longer the case. We are basically just breaking even right now

Frontier has a huge slope in its pay scale from years 2-11 that needs to be fixed. This fix requires way more than 30%

SWA 12 year captain is $364/hour if you use our low-ball conversion factor of 1.149.

True. Good luck to the junior schmucks

JK

True. But it took them 4+ years to negotiate that

2 years if you account for Covid. But you already know that.

Thanks for the reply. Good luck with your contract negotiations. Sounds like it could be another typical drawn out event. It should be interesting to watch from the sidelines though.

So was Spirit, lol. Look where we are now……. And hell, we got a mid contract raise…..

[QUOTE=Aero1900;3772291]

The concessions we are likely to face will be small and inconsequential. Our NC is excellent and has excellent support from ALPA national. Trust our NC, they know what they are doing.

[QUOTE]


Uhhhhhh, you sure about that???? JL brought us our current substandard turd. I voted no in 18 because it wasn't good enough and there is loophole, god awful language that the company drives trucks through with their "interpretation". I have little faith in the NC. Nothing changes if nothing changes.

I fully agree that negotiations will take a long, long, long time and will be disappointing in the end.

[QUOTE=Windsor;3772473][QUOTE=Aero1900;3772291]

The concessions we are likely to face will be small and inconsequential. Our NC is excellent and has excellent support from ALPA national. Trust our NC, they know what they are doing.

Most of it is standard alpa (already argued and tested in arbitration) so I guess everyone has loophole language. It’s more that’s who we work for. These guys will argue anything even when they know it’s not winnable in arbitration. Management has lost several arbitrations already with the language. We have lost zero to my knowledge. They don’t care It’s a delay tactic they’ve been employing for decades now.

Fapa language. That lost multiple arbitrations before it was cleaned up and converted to alpa.
Several examples and definitions added. Negotiations recorded for intent arguments if needed later.
Everything possible was done to try and mitigate some of these tactics but again that’s who we work for.

[QUOTE=Windsor;3772473][QUOTE=Aero1900;3772291]

The concessions we are likely to face will be small and inconsequential. Our NC is excellent and has excellent support from ALPA national. Trust our NC, they know what they are doing.

I disagree. I think JL did a good job. The language in the contract and the contract itself is light years ahead of where we were.

Frontier/ Indigo is who they are. You can't blame their bad behavior on JL. That's just not fair.

[QUOTE=ULLI;3772138]AA, UA and SW all turned down first proposals.


Spirit accepted first 💩 that the company offered.

/QUOTE]

With the attrition at ULCCs you will never achieve an industry standard contract, it is literally impossible. Learn from your own history.

Every day you stay with that misplaced optimism is costing you hundreds of seniority numbers.

"Cheers to your future ".

I have to say thank goodness we are a public company now because he can’t hide his accounting or intentions nearly as well. He gave away what they budgeted for our contract and has stated multiple times now the profit they intend to reap from the changes easily cover the future contract.

After finally getting to listen to this call…He tried to calm the fears of the CASM hit from our future raise and stated that the contract will cost about quarter of a penny hit on the CASM. After a quick calculation that means they intend for the contract to cost 100M per year toward the pilot group. /2300 for next years pilot group size…essentially they have budgeted 43k raise per year per pilot. How that’s distributed and if that’s enough remains to be seen. My back of the napkin math showed we needed about 150M per year to be on par with the rest.