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-   -   Introspection During Negotiations (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/frontier/147165-introspection-during-negotiations.html)

fivebyfive 05-06-2024 02:06 PM


Originally Posted by ProperMike (Post 3799242)
Absolutely nobody is doing a carpet dance for improving customer experience, but throwing in slander against the company during delays will (which I’ve also heard). Everything I do revolves around the customer’s experience and safety. If someone in management asks me to refer to the pilot handbook or Vol 1 regarding passenger communications regarding announcements exterior to that, I will absolutely abide. But so far, I’ve hear zilch from anybody but our passengers.

I bet you are the dude that rambles on while the cabin hits 85° because it is still 11min before departure.

ProperMike 05-06-2024 02:07 PM


Originally Posted by fivebyfive (Post 3799247)
I bet you are the dude that rambles on while the cabin hits 85° because it is still 11min before departure.

So we have flown together!

fcoolaiddrinker 05-06-2024 02:21 PM


Originally Posted by ProperMike (Post 3799242)
Absolutely nobody is doing a carpet dance for improving customer experience, but throwing in slander against the company during delays will (which I’ve also heard). Everything I do revolves around the customer’s experience and safety. If someone in management asks me to refer to the pilot handbook or Vol 1 regarding passenger communications regarding announcements exterior to that, I will absolutely abide. But so far, I’ve hear zilch from anybody but our passengers.

That’s incorrect. There’s been sec 19 for grabbing a bag for a pax from bin 1.That’s it, the pilot went down and grabbed a bag. Sec 19. Another sec 19 for a gate agent write up. A 20 plus year captain back to the right seat for a year for something similar. Just flew with him as my fo. This all happened so you can word it however you want with customer experience/safety but it sounds like your a prime candidate to waste union rep time defending some of your above and beyond. Good luck.

Broing 05-06-2024 02:49 PM

Leadership starts from the top.

At one of my previous carriers, the base chiefs would send an email out every day with a brief synopsis on the weather affecting the base/common stations, a pitfall or two to watch out for, and a shoutout or breakdown of a recent IROP with learnings and ways to improve.

They took the time to put a spotlight on things which showed they genuinly cared and were trying.

Here? It took me 6 emails, 2 voicemails, 4 text messeges and then actually showing up to a CPO Town Hall to get my parking pass application submitted...

And what happens when someone safely lands after losing an engine? Find out about it from word of mouth and have to piece the puzzle together ourselves while it's just swept under the rug by the company and CPO.
But wait if you call in sick they will jump through hoops to give you a call or email to put you on notice.

It just feels like wasted effort until some actual leadership is shown from the company's side.

ProperMike 05-06-2024 02:52 PM


Originally Posted by fcoolaiddrinker (Post 3799251)
That’s incorrect. There’s been sec 19 for grabbing a bag for a pax from bin 1.That’s it, the pilot went down and grabbed a bag. Sec 19. Another sec 19 for a gate agent write up. A 20 plus year captain back to the right seat for a year for something similar. Just flew with him as my fo. This all happened so you can word it however you want with customer experience/safety but it sounds like your a prime candidate to waste union rep time defending some of your above and beyond. Good luck.

Unfortunately I can completely see that happening in that instance. I don’t know what triggered the investigation, whether it was improper communication with ground crews, accessing an area of the aircraft that we have no training on, or manipulating the balance of the aircraft without permission, I have no idea. I see other captains, even LCAs doing things like plug the ground air into the aircraft and start the AC units on the jetbridge, which is similar to accessing the cargo bin. As far as wasting Union Representation time goes, I’m pretty sure I pay a solid amount of money to our Union so this is a null argument for me. You also bring up a great point with your anecdote, which is where does the Union publish this information. Shouldn’t we have a list of the Sec19s that the company has issued so we can draw on them for reference of what the company has investigated in the past and what they have eyes and ears on? Thats one for the list of things we can do better.

HSCompressor 05-06-2024 03:10 PM


Originally Posted by fcoolaiddrinker (Post 3799251)
That’s incorrect. There’s been sec 19 for grabbing a bag for a pax from bin 1.That’s it, the pilot went down and grabbed a bag. Sec 19. Another sec 19 for a gate agent write up. A 20 plus year captain back to the right seat for a year for something similar. Just flew with him as my fo. This all happened so you can word it however you want with customer experience/safety but it sounds like your a prime candidate to waste union rep time defending some of your above and beyond. Good luck.

Question.... He got a bag that was below the airplane, and brought it to the cabin? Meaning, a checked bag?
Yeah. I could see how'd you get a section 19 for that, because that's expressly against the rules and a captain should know better.

fcoolaiddrinker 05-06-2024 03:21 PM


Originally Posted by HSCompressor (Post 3799272)
Question.... He got a bag that was below the airplane, and brought it to the cabin? Meaning, a checked bag?
Yeah. I could see how'd you get a section 19 for that, because that's expressly against the rules and a captain should know better.

It was a gate checked bag and the pax was in the jetway after everyone else was gone. Nothing happened in the sec 19 but that’s not really the point. We’re starting to get into semantics and not really a path worth going down with current management imo.

ProperMike 05-06-2024 03:25 PM


Originally Posted by fcoolaiddrinker (Post 3799281)
It was a gate checked bag and the pax was in the jetway after everyone else was gone. Nothing happened in the sec 19 but that’s not really the point. We’re starting to get into semantics and not really a path worth going down with current management imo.

Other question: is this the event that landed him in the right seat? If nothing came of this sec19, what did put him there? Asking for a friend who makes announcements at the gate…

fcoolaiddrinker 05-06-2024 04:15 PM


Originally Posted by ProperMike (Post 3799282)
Other question: is this the event that landed him in the right seat? If nothing came of this sec19, what did put him there? Asking for a friend who makes announcements at the gate…

Two separate sec 19. Both were for doing things outside our job description which is what I was trying to convey to you. Hooking up ground air is something we absolutely should never do. You cause any damage to a panel and your not only done here but good luck getting hired anywhere else decent. Even if nothing happens your on video doing it.

I like BIG Bus 05-06-2024 04:20 PM

No amount of announcements or treating passengers well will "fix" this airline. Ask me how I know. I'm pretty sure I've been here longer than you, and was here for all the negotiations on the last contract. You're welcome by the way.The people you are basically calling out and insulting with this garbage thread had Frontier pointed in a great direction. We were profitable and near the top of the on time performance ahead of most of the "Legacies". The upper management of this company rewarded us by reneging on an LOA that would've given us immediate pay raises by hiding behind weak language. Then when we entered negotiations offered us two different pay scales. One at basically our current rate for non flying duties such as training, vacation and such with a slight pay increase only when we actually fly. Then cancelled vacations for the pilots during the Holidays just because they could. Since then they have done everything in their power to reduce us to what we are now. When Management wants this airline to actually get better they'll get serious and negotiate a proper contract. Then we can roll up our sleeves and get to work. Until that happens I am going to reply to you the way Management replies to us. You want your passengers to have a Delta experience, go to Delta.

FUPM
No waivers, No favors


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