Text scheduling instead of sitting on hold?
 

I've heard of other airlines using a simple texting system for crew scheduling where you can text out sick, check in, report late, get deadhead info, request a release from reserve, etc. all without calling scheduling.

From what I’ve heard, it really cuts down on hold times and a lot of the back and forth frustration. I think Spirit, JetBlue, and Alaska have something like this.

Could something like this be integrated at Frontier? Even a basic version would be a big improvement over waiting on hold. Has anyone else heard about this or know if it’s something the company can implement directly or would ALPA need to push for it first?

Yeah. Sure. The same way you could have things like:
Cold WXR app
SATCOM
Datalink
WSI
SIRIUS WX
WI-FI
Electronic notification
Profit sharing…..

All sorts of nice things we could have. It’s 2025. The powers to be just choose not to

That will probably happen now at some point. There was reason we didn’t want that ability until the company paid for a self notification tool of some sort. 25.A.3.b.iii. It gives them the ability to reassign without positive telephone contact 25.A.3.b.i. Now They can now do that (with protections). Based on that I would imagine the union will be looking to open up more abilities with the app going forward. However they need to be careful to not just give away abilities (less schedualers) in mediation to management for nothing. Hey here’s some cost savings for free.

Had management developed and paid for that app early on in our contract we probably could have gotten something done before negotiations.

We like to make things more complicated around here....

Luckily, it seems like they do want to update stuff such as going to electronic logbooks (in the process of converting) and hopefully that means more 2025 type tech instead of what we have now...

Do you know how embarrassing it is for me to have to ask ATC for updates on weather and what the storms look like when every other airline has internet weather/XM weather onboard their aircraft?

One day we will catch up. maybe.

I really miss WSI from my regional.

You deviate?

Yeah I would hope I would.

Its just another thing that would make life better in certain scenarios instead of needing to constantly ask or try to follow someone.

It has been done for over 100 years without wifi, but its a safety/QOL thing that would make everything better. It is like the argument of ADSB in/out in GA aircraft vs "you dont need it, just look out the window"

I was joking

Cant see your face/hear your voice through my pixels :(

I get that stuff like Cold WXR, SATCOM, datalink, Sirius WX, Wi-Fi, profit sharing all costs money. But do those things really save the company anything?

A simple texting system might actually help save. Fewer calls to scheduling means less time spent on the phones and maybe even fewer schedulers needed just to handle basic stuff like people calling in sick or asking to be released.

Yeah, there’s some cost to set it up, but if it makes things smoother for us and cheaper for them, it’s something we could push for with the union and maybe get something in return. Other airlines are already doing this so it’s worth a serious look.

[QUOTE=PlumbaFlo;3921282]I get that stuff like Cold WXR, SATCOM, datalink, Sirius WX, Wi-Fi, profit sharing all costs money. But do those things really save the company anything?

Upgraded wx tools save the company money when we avoid delays, optimize routing, and even avoid damaging phenomena such as embedded hail and lightning strikes.

Wi-Fi attracts those customers who would fly F9 but for the fact we don't have wi-fi. Once they do, it boosts revenue.

Profit sharing helps retain employees and thus reduces training costs. It also incentivizes employees to help boost overall profit because we all get a slice of the proverbial pie.

That sounds a bit like bargaining is involved. If only we were doing that right now. Fixing company issues/costs with loa’s inside negotiations/mediation is not a good idea most of the time. Even if it’s mutually beneficial. You’re using any cost savings to offset your hundreds of millions in increased labor costs. I’m sure the company would lime to fix other issues without having to raise rates, DC, per diem, ect…

[QUOTE=ginntonic;3921284]

That will NEVER happen. We are owned by an investment private equity firm. The majority anyways. They aren’t in the business of giving out profits unless it to themselves. So unfortunately it’s a pipe dream.

Furthermore, I’d much rather have my money now then hope for any type of profit sharing. Industry rate now! That is something that could be promised but could easily be manipulated.

[QUOTE=av8nallday;3921355]They said the same thing about PBS!

[QUOTE=av8nallday;3921355]you know, there’s a saying:

”You don’t get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate.”

[QUOTE=av8nallday;3921355]I wasn't making a claim as to what will or will not happen. Only responding to Plumba who was asked how the mentioned measures save the company money. I listed a few ways those items might save some cash.

As far as profit sharing, I disagree with you that it will "never" happen. Instead, I'm more Lloyd Christmas saying there's a chance. :-)

[QUOTE=ginntonic;3921366]^^^ Wanna hear the most annoying sound in the world?

[QUOTE=ginntonic;3921366]
We all have dreams some come true some don’t.

I think it's possible to negotiate profit sharing but not just as icing on the cake. Profit sharing would go against upper managements deeply held beliefs and values. To get them to sign off on that, i think we would likely be giving up something significant.

I don't see it being a worthy goal. I think it would cost us too much elsewhere. Give me industry standard pay, increases to retirement contributions and better benefits and let them keep the profit they can't seem to make.

Well at least we don’t have paper charts !

I still have PTSD of coming back from vacation and having 6 Jepp update packets in my Vfile.

And after 30 years of flying airliners and corporate- I have yet to fly into a thunderstorm.

Plus it’s nice to actually speak to someone on the radio.

Blue skies and rainbows 🌈

what I was thinking but didn’t put as eloquently as you.

I mean you can ask the FAPA Invest pilots how profit sharing worked out...since they were the only ones who got any...

That was our opportunity...and there it went.

Profit sharing is fun when times are good, other than that, its not much to even consider.

PS check at my regional was $9 once..... $140 another time, then about $250 as my highest.

I would rather take higher pay and better QOL over profit sharing any day.

Agreed!


filler

profit sharing at the larger carriers can be an entire paycheck in excess of $20,000.

that’s an apples to oranges comparison.

Yeah it can be... But it also can not be... These huge checks we have seen the last few years haven't always been happening.

That being said, im not giving anything up for PS and I would rather have higher base pay/overrides/betterQOL still. A company like ours will manipulate books and always show "not enough" for big PS checks.

You're not wrong but do you know what DL’s profit sharing is? It’s 10% of total compensation. I’d much rather have my 10% now then hope for some miracle of being profitable enough for the company to want to give us 10%. Not to mention we are already paid so low even if we did get profit sharing with a lower compensation then the other airlines it wouldn’t look like much.

Pay me now I don’t want to hope for profit sharing to pad my bank account.

Thats wasn’t profit sharing. It was equity in exchange for concessions. That’s why nobody that wasn’t on property got a check. They didn’t take concessions.

Also, Lets remember the reason DL has profit sharing was because the company screwed MANY of their pilots out of their pensions. It isn't some nice thing the company gave them. It was a concession that so happened to work out for them now. Almost 15 years later.

How did Southwest get their profit sharing? Or nearly every other major get PS with the exception of NK and F9.

If everyone else has it you won’t have an industry standard contract until you have it too.

Pattern bargaining for those who never saw bankruptcy. DL attempted to gut it and I believe jb might have given a bit on the % or trigger metrics? We had it and sold it for 4 million. There was a language problem (when indigo took over) where it didn’t apply to anyone not on property. Similar to how cal lost a pension without bankruptcy (pension only for those on property so eventually bargained away). But yes I agree.

The cognitive dissonance is amazing. The point of an industry standard contract is to get industry standard. I believe even JetBlue has profit sharing in their contract.

“well profit sharing is stupid because I got ¢.50 at my last regional.”

Great. So now we really are a regional. Breeze, Allegiant, and Avelo don’t have it either. I guess they really are our peer group.

crazy idea guys. There is a middle ground on profit sharing. We can get the words “Proft Sharing” in the contract now, and fight over the percentages% the next time around. Instead of having to do twice the work in 10 years.

speaking of delta. That’s more or less what they did. They didn’t just get $50k profit sharing checks as a result of the last round of negotiations.

Exactly right. We could just tweak our bonus language a bit. 3.R. I believe Alaska profit sharing language was/might still be what we have now. Without looking it might have changed? The difference being they actually have non flight crew non-management employees.

That's literally how EVERY other airline with PS got it. We just HAD to be different because that's the DFC way!

Times are tough? Sure we will take concessions but it will ONLY benefit those here now...screw everyone who comes later.

Traffic's bad on Pena btw!

We had profit sharing and Fapa invest at the same time under republic. Profit sharing was negotiated away by Fapa (for 4ish million) with indigo at least a year after Fapa invest was created. Two separate negotiations with two different companies. Based on whatever language and perceived leverage at the time.

More like hey we need concessions to survive (republic). Ok how are you going to make us whole at some point in the future? The concessions are valued at 120 million and we already have profit sharing. Equity stake. Not the first airline to do this either. Delta pilots got it in the merger. Some Jb pilots got equity early on. I guess they screwed everyone who came later.

Equity and profit sharing are two completely separate agreements/concepts. You can’t get equity if you’re not on property at the time it’s negotiated.
Equity is to make whole and to help facilitate merges. Profit sharing in theory is so we’re all rowing in the same direction.

You are correct that profit sharing was negotiated by FAPA, not FAPA Invest (FI), as a return for concessions, along with what became the phantom equity agreement. At that time FAPA was the bargaining agent for F9 pilots and we were owned by Republic. FI (the entity) had nothing to do with the origination of either the profit sharing or the phantom equity. Due to some lawsuits slung by the IBT and other issues, FI was created as a third party investment group with a mandate to manage the Profit Sharing and PI outside of the DOL and NMB. Once it became an agreement outside of the CBA, the IBT could no longer pirate it. FAPA was no longer the bargaining agent at this point. Profit sharing was not negotiated away by FAPA, it was a condition of the purchase of F9 imposed by Indigo. The Indigo folks literally showed FI the Profit Sharing math, explained it was a plan negotiated with Republic and not Indigo, and they wouldn't follow through with the purchase with it in place (the math was VERY favorable for the pilot group, hence Indigo wanted it gone). Separating from Republic was a priority at the time (IMSL and many, many other reasons) so the Profit Sharing was erased while the Phantom Equity remained with conditions (all of which were met to the tune of $139 million paid out to about 600ish participating pilots).

With all of that said, I believe wasting negotiating capital on Profit Sharing language is misguided. If I get motivated to explain with math I will some day, but suffice it to say profit sharing with the Indigo model of an airline balance sheet will disappoint. Frankly, I am surprised they haven't offered it themselves as a distraction from actual hourly rates knowing it will never pay.

Thank you for the more detailed insight.

Exactly. Many years ago, when Skywest Inc bought ASA, they offered the ASA pilots profit sharing and we took it. ASA never saw a profit again, while Skywest was raking it in. With this leadership team we would never see a profit sharing check. Give me good rates. I am ok without profit sharing.

waisting any negotiating capital on profit sharing is stupid. If management had a clue they would offer it outside of cba’s as an incentive to make the company (more) profitable, and it would work. Just look at the bag fiasco.
if we negotiated for it and it was in the cba the company would ensure they wouldn’t have to ever pay. They always find ways to screw over the cba. Now, go work your 10hr 3 day trip and enjoy it!

If you’re insinuating that the company would avoid a profit in order to avoid paying out a little PS to the pilots, you maybe need to take a break from social media. If you’re instead convinced the company would somehow pull some kind of gimmick to avoid paying out PS notwithstanding having booked a profit, then what you’re really saying is that you don’t have faith that our negotiators would secure ironclad-enough PS language.

In either case, the problem isn’t profit sharing as a concept. There are plenty of instances in business where it’s worked to the mutual benefit of labor and management.