|
What happened to our planes, our pilots huh? Sounds like that ain't happening.
|
there goes the neighborhood...i dont know for sure but i would be willing to bet that on average commuter train drivers make more than 121 pilots overall...and with the major airlines essentially turning into regionals these days what is the point of this stupid career? 'its...over, johnny'
|
Originally Posted by Mason32
(Post 633612)
Is this really what it has come to in this profession.... mainline pilots asking the regional pilots for scope relief.......
|
Originally Posted by texaspilot76
(Post 633611)
Republic pilots, this is your chance to stand up for whats right. No more excuses like "We can't control what our management makes us do". Quit being a bunch of self centered babies and stand up for the future of our industry.
If you all sit back and smile like you have with the Midwest ordeal, then you will suffer more than just being put on some list. Your actions are really enraging your fellow pilots.
Originally Posted by Superpilot92
(Post 633615)
no thats what Bedford wants from the F9 pilots. He wants them give up their scope protections as part of the agreement.
Originally Posted by johnso29
(Post 633618)
I may have read it wrong, but I believe the union was telling its pilots that RAH MANAGEMENT want unlimited scope relief FROM the F9 pilots.
|
Originally Posted by Fishfreighter
(Post 633620)
And once the scope language is gone, so will the F9 pay rate.
|
Why doesn't JetBlue step in?
For $108 million (or whatever the final price tag will be) wouldn’t JetBlue or Spirit want a piece of this? Yes, two different company philosophies and business models (JetBlue vs. Spirit), but might be better then getting farmed out to Republic.
For JetBlue and Frontier: Airbus planes – JB need 319’s Embraer Planes- no need for Lynx for the short hall stuff Pay scales – close, I guess. Product – Airplanes with TV’s in them…that’s all the pax care about JB could use another west coast major domicile. Good luck all |
How many times does the Midwest disaster have to be replayed before everyone knows how this is going to go?
F9 guys will either go on the RAH payscale or their jobs will simply be eliminated and they'll be replaced by RAH pilots. Sadly, this means a whole lot of pilots need to face the fact that they'll be retiring at RAH type pay rates. Talk about "career expectations." |
My guess is SWA makes a bid.
|
SWA don't want no stinking airbus.
|
Originally Posted by johnso29
(Post 633618)
I may have read it wrong, but I believe the union was telling its pilots that RAH MANAGEMENT want unlimited scope relief FROM the F9 pilots.
This is directly from Frontier's Pilot Union: "There are many terms and conditions within the Republic Plan that must be satisfied in return for this investment. Of interest to FAPA Members – the Republic Plan requires changes be made to our CBA including a 3 year extension (to March 2, 2015) of the amendable date and a change to Section 1.F allowing for “unlimited scope relief.” For all employees, the Frontier profit sharing plan will be replaced with a Republic profit sharing plan. Republic’s terms are initial “asks” and not changes that will be casually forced upon us. Republic has indicated that they plan to operate Frontier as a separate fenced off company and not merge seniority lists." |
Originally Posted by texaspilot76
(Post 633611)
Republic pilots, this is your chance to stand up for whats right. No more excuses like "We can't control what our management makes us do". Quit being a bunch of self centered babies and stand up for the future of our industry.
If you all sit back and smile like you have with the Midwest ordeal, then you will suffer more than just being put on some list. Your actions are really enraging your fellow pilots. When the time comes, we will act accordingly. |
Originally Posted by jtramo
(Post 633637)
Our actions? What actions? Who is smiling about what deal? Stop telling us that we are responsible for saving (or destroying) the entire pilot race. It makes you look like the self centered baby and this forum like a net version of "The Hills." Its laughable how naive and childish this board makes "our fellow pilots" look as a whole.
When the time comes, we will act accordingly. |
Originally Posted by jtramo
(Post 633637)
Our actions? What actions? Who is smiling about what deal? Stop telling us that we are responsible for saving (or destroying) the entire pilot race. It makes you look like the self centered baby and this forum like a net version of "The Hills." Its laughable how naive and childish this board makes "our fellow pilots" look as a whole.
When the time comes, we will act accordingly. Hasn't your time come in Oct. 2007? I would venture to say that your time is now... |
Originally Posted by jtramo
(Post 633637)
Our actions? What actions? Who is smiling about what deal? Stop telling us that we are responsible for saving (or destroying) the entire pilot race. It makes you look like the self centered baby and this forum like a net version of "The Hills." Its laughable how naive and childish this board makes "our fellow pilots" look as a whole.
When the time comes, we will act accordingly. So many people talking out of both sides of their mouths...blaming RAH pilots for having a rate for up to 99 seats and saying that other airline's CBAs have a means for expedited mediation/arbitration to set new airframe pay, then (ignorantly) proclaiming as fact Frontier pilots will be reduced to the existing RAH payscale which is unpossible because no such scale exists above 99 seats in the RAH contract. Its kinda funny really, in a really pathetic way...like a group of prostitutes pointing at another woman of the night and calling her a slut. |
BB has said that they will operate Frontier as a "separate" subsidiary with separate lists. Now that could be meaningless if they demand the pilots to accept the RAH contract.
|
Originally Posted by minimwage4
(Post 633668)
BB has said that they will operate Frontier as a "separate" subsidiary with separate lists. Now that could be meaningless if they demand the pilots to accept the RAH contract.
|
RAH will keep Frontier's payscale just like they kept midwest's. :/
|
"Republic has indicated that they plan to operate Frontier as a separate fenced off company and not merge seniority lists."
As per FAPA's letter without Republics "bailout" Frontier will cease to exist. Republic/Teamster CAB states that all Republic subsideries are to be operated under one seniority list. Should be interesting....... |
Originally Posted by texaspilot76
(Post 633611)
Republic pilots, this is your chance to stand up for whats right. No more excuses like "We can't control what our management makes us do". Quit being a bunch of self centered babies and stand up for the future of our industry.
If you all sit back and smile like you have with the Midwest ordeal, then you will suffer more than just being put on some list. Your actions are really enraging your fellow pilots. If they sit back in smile, give it a couple years and someone will come in and undercut them.. Then watch how they talk about how unjust the situation is. Until then just expect the "I need to put food on the table" BS AA |
Is it that surprising to everyone that all this is happening? The Pandora's box was opened when scope was relaxed or given up on by people willing to eat the young and forever dooming the industry in exchange for a couple of more years of income.
|
Exactly, AA.. You speak the truth... Opps, silly me....You are typing it anyway. The precedent that this sets in just terrible for the rest of us. This is where I sit back and go "Remember the good old days, when .......(insert good pay and work rules here)....... I wish the boys and girls at Frontier the best throughout this upcoming tornado. Take care, all.
|
We just don't get tired of saying " this industry sucks "....:eek:
I hope you guys from frontier survive from this one. ;) |
|
Republic Airways to Acquire Midwest Airlines - Yahoo! Finance
The machine rolls on http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Republ....html?x=0&.v=1 |
BB wants "Unlimited Scope" under the condition that he will allow Frontier to operate independently of the Republic Seniority List.
If this happens, Republic will just fly 190's in place of A320's and the Frontier pilots will be gone. I have a hard time believing Republic only bought 2 190's. Having Frontier pilots on the seniority list with their current pay scales and fences may be better in the long run as opposed to giving up scope for the opportunity to run independelty for a couple of months before the 190's come in. |
"Midwest’s Boeing 717s will be replaced with Embraer 190 aircraft, enhancing Midwest’s ability to offer nonstop service to key destinations important to its frequent flyers."
Surprise! If the plan was any different for Frontier, then why ask for the scope change @ Frontier? Bedford "plans" to operate Frontier on a separate certificate? I'll believe it when I see it. |
Originally Posted by Purpleanga
(Post 633708)
Is it that surprising to everyone that all this is happening? The Pandora's box was opened when scope was relaxed or given up on by people willing to eat the young and forever dooming the industry in exchange for a couple of more years of income.
You can take just about any quote from the revolutionary time frame and replace words like liberty and freedom with scope and they become appropriate for our industry, if that is, you have anything to loose. i.e. "Give me scope or give me death", "Taxation without scope", "I regret that I have only one life to loose for scope."... you get the idea. |
By the way, if you don't have anything to loose in this industry and you don't first secure scope, You'll never have anything worth loosing anyways.
|
Originally Posted by wally24
(Post 633727)
BB wants "Unlimited Scope" under the condition that he will allow Frontier to operate independently of the Republic Seniority List.
If this happens, Republic will just fly 190's in place of A320's and the Frontier pilots will be gone. I have a hard time believing Republic only bought 2 190's. Having Frontier pilots on the seniority list with their current pay scales and fences may be better in the long run as opposed to giving up scope for the opportunity to run independelty for a couple of months before the 190's come in. |
Originally Posted by HercDriver130
(Post 633268)
I dont have a copy of my old RAH contract but I believe it explicitly states that any aircraft owned by RAH or any sub MUST be flown by pilots on the RAH master seniority list. Some sort of integration would have to take place if the current CBA remains in force. IF the union signs a side letter for this ...then all bets are off.
Bedford has made no bones about it.... he wants to be a big plane airline.... I suggest to you that with control of Frontier and Midwest...he is expecting to lose some of his feed through BK and cut backs.... Five years from now 175s will be his small aircraft and RAH will have been transformed from a contractor to an airline holding company with one, two or three mainline size airline companies. If anyone thinks Bedford is going to sit around and have RAH whither on the vine they are mistaken. the key will be for ALL the pilots at RAH and FRONTIER to work for better pay and work rules.
Originally Posted by johnso29
(Post 633285)
Well RAH guys, now you'll have E190s AND A319/A320s on property so I think JB rates + 3% is your starting point. Anything less then JB rates is a disgrace to the industry. You OWE this to YX pilots.
Both EXCELLENT points and totally agree!!! And having friends that work for and are also furloughed with Republic, they want the better pay and contract! I say we do everything we can to encourage and help them make it happen :) |
As a wife to an F9 pilot who has been working for this company for over 10 years we are very saddened and not very hopeful. My husband LOVED this company and LOVES going to work for them but we see it all changing very soon.
Someone posted that they should all just quit but it isn't easy when you are raising young children and have a mortgage to pay (and we are still in the same house we bought right after he got hired by F9 so we feel we have been financially "responsible). Thanks for all of those who are thinking of the pilots and their families. These last 14 months have been stressful with the "unknown" and I'm sure it will continue for months to come. |
Originally Posted by thepilotswife
(Post 633922)
As a wife to an F9 pilot who has been working for this company for over 10 years we are very saddened and not very hopeful. My husband LOVED this company and LOVES going to work for them but we see it all changing very soon.
Someone posted that they should all just quit but it isn't easy when you are raising young children and have a mortgage to pay (and we are still in the same house we bought right after he got hired by F9 so we feel we have been financially "responsible). Thanks for all of those who are thinking of the pilots and their families. These last 14 months have been stressful with the "unknown" and I'm sure it will continue for months to come. |
Originally Posted by Sniper
(Post 633730)
"Midwest’s Boeing 717s will be replaced with Embraer 190 aircraft, enhancing Midwest’s ability to offer nonstop service to key destinations important to its frequent flyers."
Surprise! If the plan was any different for Frontier, then why ask for the scope change @ Frontier? Bedford "plans" to operate Frontier on a separate certificate? I'll believe it when I see it. |
RAH fly’s for UAL on a FFD agreement but now they‘re directly competing with them in DEN with the purchase of F9 (and somewhat with the purchase of Midwest in MKE:ORD), does anybody else see UAL dropping RAH ASAP? This is a huge conflict of interest, RAH is now competing with the hand that feeds them.
|
Bedford is not that stupid, there is something very big going on, stay tuned I guess???????
|
not just united.
continental, american, usair, and delta have all paid big bucks for regional lift, relaxing the scope clauses, and breaking down the pilot unions. and while RAH was being a pinkerton for the legacies, it was filling it's bank accounts. that revenue is now funding direct competition to those very legacies. it will indeed be interesting to hear what continental, delta, usair, american, and united all have to say about this. it would be more interesting to hear what they are saying behind closed doors! was this part of a plan? did this turn out to be a monumental mistake? |
Originally Posted by JoeyMeatballs
(Post 633985)
Bedford is not that stupid, there is something very big going on, stay tuned I guess???????
|
Originally Posted by JetJock16
(Post 634006)
He probably thinks his different operating certificates are enough to protect him but flying for competing carriers is completely different than directly competing against an airline that has hired your services under a CPA.
This could end up having the majors' managements rethinking outsourcing and end up helping fight the scope battle for us.... |
Originally Posted by shiznit
(Post 634030)
Wow,
This could end up having the majors' managements rethinking outsourcing and end up helping fight the scope battle for us.... |
Originally Posted by shiznit
(Post 634030)
Wow,
This could end up having the majors' managements rethinking outsourcing and end up helping fight the scope battle for us.... |
| All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:44 AM. |
Website Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands