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dont bash the pilots, bash the mgt. they are the problem they realy suck.... if you are thinking of working there think again you will regret it. they call their self family i dont think they know what that is. all they do is try to screw the pilots.......:mad::mad::mad:
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are the classes all UA furloughees or are they mixed with other applicants??
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Originally Posted by goaround2000
(Post 699695)
There is no bashing, your overemotional reactions blind you every time you're challenged with facts because you have no facts to counter with.
Fact, the reason why gojets was created was because it was cheaper to sustain a separate list than to negotiate with TSA. Once again, the purpose of an alter ego is to provide a similar product utilizing a workforce that operates under a substandard contract, otherwise there is not much use for them (Please see Freedom A as another example of such). Fact, there are currently no other regionals considered alter egos with the exception of gojets. Fact, the gojets contract being substandard (lower wages than some 50 seaters, no block or better, etc.) counters the efforts of not just TSA, but everyone else trying to negotiate a better contract. Fact, the Continental marketing department (the people who assign the routes and schedules to ExpressJet) have nothing to do with the creation of alter-ego, so let's stick to the subject at hand. Fact, you have no guarantees that Hulas won't pull the same trick out of his hat when you guys begin negotiating your substandard contract. It's called a precedent! Fact, TSA was trying to negotiate a better contract in 05, including items that gojets currently does not have in the current contract. So since you tend to be so vocal, how about a few questions: Would you accept another substandard contract just to secure flying at gojets? And since you don't see a problem working for gojets, would you throw your resume in at the alter-ego United is creating since it's not any different than gojets? How about it, how about answering some questions? How about providing some facts with your arguments? Fact, the reason why gojets was created was because it was cheaper to sustain a separate list than to negotiate with TSA. Once again, the purpose of an alter ego is to provide a similar product utilizing a workforce that operates under a substandard contract, otherwise there is not much use for them (Please see Freedom A as another example of such). Fact, The initial problem was due to scope. The flying TSA was doing for American (which could be argued belonged to Eagle in the first place - doesn't that make TSA a bottom feeder too, just like the rest of the entire regional industry?) restricted any other flying to 50 seats. Not that I support Hulas, but any smart person knows the time of the "50 seaters" is short lived. In order to grow TSH, larger aircraft had to be utilized, and since TSA, ALPA and TSH weren't cooperating, Gojet was the result. There WERE options though. Fact, there are currently no other regionals considered alter egos with the exception of gojets. Fact, Uh, Freedom? Fact, the gojets contract being substandard (lower wages than some 50 seaters, no block or better, etc.) counters the efforts of not just TSA, but everyone else trying to negotiate a better contract. Fact, I agree somewhat, but you need to get your facts straight. We do have block or better. And wages are not substandard, the contract IS, but pay scales are competitive. Fact, you have no guarantees that Hulas won't pull the same trick out of his hat when you guys begin negotiating your substandard contract. It's called a precedent! Fact, you are correct, but as a capitalistic country, the beauty of OWNING a company, is the luxury of being able to do just that. I don't agree with it, but until people realize pure capitalism is just as evil as pure socialism, things won't change. Fact, TSA was trying to negotiate a better contract in 05, including items that gojets currently does not have in the current contract. Fact, that's true, but it doesn't mean you can blame another pilot group for trying to personally succeed just like any other pilot out there. The reality is that ALL regionals, operating under a fee-for-departure contract will never, ever be great places to work. De-regulation ensured that. So until we as an entire industry stand together as pilots, and say NO, pilot bashing is a waste of energy. So since you tend to be so vocal, how about a few questions: Would you accept another substandard contract just to secure flying at gojets? No. But that's a relative statement, additional flying means growth, and that increases QOL. Substandard to what? Our current contract, ie going backwards? Or substandard to other carriers operating similar aircraft? I don't support backward movement, but if there is growth, with an increase in contractual support for the pilots, isn't that a good thing? And since you don't see a problem working for gojets, would you throw your resume in at the alter-ego United is creating since it's not any different than gojets? You are making a HUGE assumption, with zero factual items to support anything of the sort will happen. And the bigger problem is not Gojet, it's the selfish nature of pilots. Why can't we all work together to make this job a great job, without the hatred and immaturity and pure ignorance, that is so commonly found in these forums. The most insane part? The fact that regional pilots are fighting other regional pilots when the biggest hoax of all, is the regional industry as a whole! EVERYTHING we fly, should be mainline. Period. |
Originally Posted by goaround2000
(Post 699754)
...would you throw your resume in at the alter-ego United is creating...
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I think he's referring to the Aer Lingus/UAL thing going down next year...
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Originally Posted by peterpower
(Post 701231)
Fact, The initial problem was due to scope. The flying TSA was doing for American (which could be argued belonged to Eagle in the first place - doesn't that make TSA a bottom feeder too, just like the rest of the entire regional industry?) restricted any other flying to 50 seats. Not that I support Hulas, but any smart person knows the time of the "50 seaters" is short lived. In order to grow TSH, larger aircraft had to be utilized, and since TSA, ALPA and TSH weren't cooperating, Gojet was the result. There WERE options though. The Eagle fiasco had NOTHING to do with the creation of gojets, like your pals that work at gojets, you're trying to justify a wrong with another wrong. It's interesting how you say that TSA and ALPA weren't cooperating, is that because they were trying to negotiate good rates and better work rules? The byproduct was an alter-ego with a substandard contract currently represented by segment of teamsters that doesn't even represent aviation professionals.
Originally Posted by peterpower
(Post 701231)
Fact, Uh, Freedom?
Originally Posted by peterpower
(Post 701231)
Fact, I agree somewhat, but you need to get your facts straight. We do have block or better. And wages are not substandard, the contract IS, but pay scales are competitive.
Originally Posted by peterpower
(Post 701231)
Fact, you are correct
Originally Posted by peterpower
(Post 701231)
Fact, that's true, but it doesn't mean you can blame another pilot group for trying to personally succeed just like any other pilot out there. The reality is that ALL regionals, operating under a fee-for-departure contract will never, ever be great places to work. De-regulation ensured that. So until we as an entire industry stand together as pilots, and say NO, pilot bashing is a waste of energy.
You and your co-workers refuse to accept the reality of it: the purpose of an alter ego is to provide a similar product utilizing a workforce that operates under a substandard contract, otherwise there is not much use for them. In addition your statement about the quality of life at other regionals is strictly an opinion without foundation. Like many who are fortunate I have a good quality of life based on a leading industry contract that my union was able to negotiate over 5 years ago.
Originally Posted by peterpower
(Post 701231)
No. But that's a relative statement, additional flying means growth, and that increases QOL. Substandard to what? Our current contract, ie going backwards? Or substandard to other carriers operating similar aircraft? I don't support backward movement, but if there is growth, with an increase in contractual support for the pilots, isn't that a good thing?
Originally Posted by peterpower
(Post 701231)
You are making a HUGE assumption, with zero factual items to support anything of the sort will happen. And the bigger problem is not Gojet, it's the selfish nature of pilots. Why can't we all work together to make this job a great job, without the hatred and immaturity and pure ignorance, that is so commonly found in these forums.
You're right, the problem is every selfish pilot that went to work for gojets while circumventing a contract and taking a job away from the TSA guys, while taking the very ability to negotiate a better contract from the TSA guys. You want to work together? How about integrating the list? That would be a good start, what do you think of that? You've clearly bought into what you were sold in basic indoc. at gojets. Your entire post clearly shows your inability to see the harm that gojets has caused the industry, I would encourage you to read up on your history, and do a little homework before posting out of raw emotion just as your coworkers have a tendency to do here. goaround |
Originally Posted by goaround2000
(Post 701274)
Everyone knows that they needed another certificate to avoid the AA scope restriction, the issue stems from the two separate seniority list. As stated and proven, Hulas was able to avoid negotiating with TSA by allowing gojets to have a separate list.
The Eagle fiasco had NOTHING to do with the creation of gojets, like your pals that work at gojets, you're trying to justify a wrong with another wrong. It's interesting how you say that TSA and ALPA weren't cooperating, is that because they were trying to negotiate good rates and better work rules? The byproduct was an alter-ego with a substandard contract currently represented by segment of teamsters that doesn't even represent aviation professionals. The list was integrated a few years ago, thus no longer an alter-ego. Hence the name Freedom A as in the Freedom prior to integration. Sorry friend, the only alter-ego currently in our segment of the industry is gojets. Pay is defined as the sum of the contract that allows you to maximize income, and as you said, the contract is substandard. Yes I know, the precedent is there, if you guys try to play hard ball with Hulas, he can just as easily create an alter-ego to the alter-ego. You clearly don't understand the bigger picture, you didn't succeed, you failed miserably! Not only did you fail yourselves, but you failed the industry. By going to work for a substandard contract you not only lower the bar, but promoted the precedent of alter-egos, which in the long run has the potential to affect your long term goals in the business. Not to mention the fact that working for a company created for the sole purpose of circumventing an existing contract has the same effect as crossing a picket line. You and your co-workers refuse to accept the reality of it: the purpose of an alter ego is to provide a similar product utilizing a workforce that operates under a substandard contract, otherwise there is not much use for them. In addition your statement about the quality of life at other regionals is strictly an opinion without foundation. Like many who are fortunate I have a good quality of life based on a leading industry contract that my union was able to negotiate over 5 years ago. So you're actually saying YES, you would take a substandard contract such as the one you operate under now for additional flying. Therein the problem with the mentality of those who to work for an alter-ego. What assumption is that? The alter-ego Tilton is attempting to create is no different than the alter-ego Hulas created with gojets. You're right, the problem is every selfish pilot that went to work for gojets while circumventing a contract and taking a job away from the TSA guys, while taking the very ability to negotiate a better contract from the TSA guys. You want to work together? How about integrating the list? That would be a good start, what do you think of that? You've clearly bought into what you were sold in basic indoc. at gojets. Your entire post clearly shows your inability to see the harm that gojets has caused the industry, I would encourage you to read up on your history, and do a little homework before posting out of raw emotion just as your coworkers have a tendency to do here. goaround Fact: Freedom was an alter ego. Proven in court. Fact: KFC and TACOBELL are owned and operated by the same people. Fact: KFC and Tacobell workers are not under one "employee list". Fact: KFC is not an alter ego. Fact: TACOBELL is not an alter ego. Fact: TSA contract did not prevent Goje(I mean a separate list). Hulas if he so wanted as an evil capitalist could have created a 747 operation or a saab340 operation simultaneously(KFC,Tacobell). All the more reason they should have secured the flying under one list, virtually every airline has had to sacrifice for larger equipment, Mesa, RAH with their 30 dollar top out rates for 99 seat Fos... TSA was certainly not above especially when they knew they worked for Hulas. Fact: TSA did not secure the flying. Fact: You don't know the circumstances of the negotiations and the agendas(wouldn't you think a sane MEC, just like all the other ones, would have wanted new flying?) Fact: Gojet became union with industry standard wages and contract. Fact: That is counter of why you think Gojet was started. Fact: A pilot looking for a job at Gojet now is no different than any other person looking a job at another regional. QOL is different for everyone. Colgan or Gojets? Fact: You are a regional pilot. Slave labor replacement for mainline jobs. If want to make up your own definitions.. then I think you're a pretty big alter ego worker yourself. Half the price. |
Ok....your schwartz is as big as my schwartz!
Originally Posted by goaround2000
(Post 701274)
Everyone knows that they needed another certificate to avoid the AA scope restriction, the issue stems from the two separate seniority list. As stated and proven, Hulas was able to avoid negotiating with TSA by allowing gojets to have a separate list.
The Eagle fiasco had NOTHING to do with the creation of gojets, like your pals that work at gojets, you're trying to justify a wrong with another wrong. It's interesting how you say that TSA and ALPA weren't cooperating, is that because they were trying to negotiate good rates and better work rules?
Originally Posted by goaround2000
(Post 701274)
The list was integrated a few years ago, thus no longer an alter-ego. Hence the name Freedom A as in the Freedom prior to integration. Sorry friend, the only alter-ego currently in our segment of the industry is gojets.
Originally Posted by goaround2000
(Post 701274)
Pay is defined as the sum of the contract that allows you to maximize income, and as you said, the contract is substandard.
Originally Posted by goaround2000
(Post 701274)
You clearly don't understand the bigger picture, you didn't succeed, you failed miserably! Not only did you fail yourselves, but you failed the industry. By going to work for a substandard contract you not only lower the bar, but promoted the precedent of alter-egos, which in the long run has the potential to affect your long term goals in the business. Not to mention the fact that working for a company created for the sole purpose of circumventing an existing contract has the same effect as crossing a picket line.
You and your co-workers refuse to accept the reality of it: the purpose of an alter ego is to provide a similar product utilizing a workforce that operates under a substandard contract, otherwise there is not much use for them. In addition your statement about the quality of life at other regionals is strictly an opinion without foundation. Like many who are fortunate I have a good quality of life based on a leading industry contract that my union was able to negotiate over 5 years ago. Secondly, to even remotely compare me to a scab is YOUR emotionally charged response to my opinion. The difference, is although we might not agree on the details, I would still stand shoulder to shoulder with you on "the line" if it ever came to that with no hesitation. I somewhat doubt your ability to put aside your anger towards a fellow pilot fighting for a better QOL, and do the same.
Originally Posted by goaround2000
(Post 701274)
So you're actually saying YES, you would take a substandard contract such as the one you operate under now for additional flying. Therein the problem with the mentality of those who to work for an alter-ego.
Originally Posted by goaround2000
(Post 701274)
What assumption is that? The alter-ego Tilton is attempting to create is no different than the alter-ego Hulas created with gojets.
You're right, the problem is every selfish pilot that went to work for gojets while circumventing a contract and taking a job away from the TSA guys, while taking the very ability to negotiate a better contract from the TSA guys. You want to work together? How about integrating the list? That would be a good start, what do you think of that? You've clearly bought into what you were sold in basic indoc. at gojets. Your entire post clearly shows your inability to see the harm that gojets has caused the industry, I would encourage you to read up on your history, and do a little homework before posting out of raw emotion just as your coworkers have a tendency to do here. goaround Lets move on; mistakes were made, and have been made in the entire history of pilots/unions/airlines, and will continue to be made. Lets put down our pride and ego's and join in one voice against those who are really responsible for the degradation of our profession. The childish name calling, and d--k measuring so commonly found here is petty, and perfect for management to keep us separated, with no strength. |
are they hiring or what???
thank you for the info tought |
You fly like a girl and your face looks funny.
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