Cal Fire pay?
08-16-2022, 11:26 AM
#1
New boss = Old boss
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Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: Ca B737
Posts: 2,762
Cal Fire pay?
Just watched a Belancolirio interview of a Cal Fire pilot. She says they have a new contract, and the pay is comparable to a major airline captain. I have my doubts. All my friends flying 737 or bigger are making $300k+ per year. When I look up Cal Fire pay the internet says that they make more like $150k/year. Cal Fire isn't listed on this website. Does anyone know the real numbers?
08-16-2022, 12:59 PM
#3
New boss = Old boss
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Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: Ca B737
Posts: 2,762
Originally Posted by rickair7777
I wouldn't doubt $300k. Overtime, and maybe big per diem for away from base.
Crop dusters make $300k.
Plus there's that wing spar thing.
Crop dusters make $300k.
Plus there's that wing spar thing.
08-16-2022, 01:27 PM
#4
Occasional box hauler
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,683
Originally Posted by mike734
That would surprise me, that’s why I’m looking for the actual numbers.
08-16-2022, 06:41 PM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: AT802
Posts: 241
Originally Posted by JohnBurke
Do tell. I may have been doing it wrong all these years.
Which one?
Which one?
I can verify that’s a real number for some ag guys if your in the right area and can put in the hours, but in my opinion it’s not what everyone makes.
I tried fire and got burned.
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08-16-2022, 07:53 PM
#7
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,025
One or two percent of the ag pilots out there might make those numbers, but most won't come remotely close, even with a permanent year-round seat.
I've certainly had a fire season go bust, and with the exception of operations such as CDF/Calfire, seasonal income can be unpredictable, but I've had some decent years, too.
While SEAT operations tend to involve staying with the airplane until the season ends, large air tanker ops for the most part have evolved to rotations and much more time off during the fire season. Calfire works ten on, five off.
CDF is the best paying in the fire service; as a pilot, your employment is not with CDF (Fixed-wing pilots and maintenance work for Dyncorp, while rotor pilots work for Calfire). Calfire also works on a bid system that puts you into a permanent seat when you bid and hold it, and you stay there until you surrender that position. That means if you move to that location, you "live in base," and you can end up home each night during the fire season...something not found in any other segment of the aerial firefighter world.
Your initial bid is into an air attack platform, primarily the OV-10, and now the King Air. With experience and seniority, bid is possible into the S-2 or C-130.
Hiring is done at the end of the year. There is very little movement and very low turnover.
I've certainly had a fire season go bust, and with the exception of operations such as CDF/Calfire, seasonal income can be unpredictable, but I've had some decent years, too.
While SEAT operations tend to involve staying with the airplane until the season ends, large air tanker ops for the most part have evolved to rotations and much more time off during the fire season. Calfire works ten on, five off.
CDF is the best paying in the fire service; as a pilot, your employment is not with CDF (Fixed-wing pilots and maintenance work for Dyncorp, while rotor pilots work for Calfire). Calfire also works on a bid system that puts you into a permanent seat when you bid and hold it, and you stay there until you surrender that position. That means if you move to that location, you "live in base," and you can end up home each night during the fire season...something not found in any other segment of the aerial firefighter world.
Your initial bid is into an air attack platform, primarily the OV-10, and now the King Air. With experience and seniority, bid is possible into the S-2 or C-130.
Hiring is done at the end of the year. There is very little movement and very low turnover.
08-17-2022, 05:29 AM
#8
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
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Posts: 39,286
Originally Posted by JohnBurke
One or two percent of the ag pilots out there might make those numbers, but most won't come remotely close, even with a permanent year-round seat.
08-17-2022, 08:42 AM
#9
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,025
Owner-operator, quite common. Owner operator who pulls in three hundred grand of his own income (vs. company revenue), not so much.
Typically the farmer places the order, and the operator picks up the chemical, sprays the field. The chemical is expensive. If the farmer sees "skips" in the field, spots that have uneven coverage or weeds or any other reason the farmer might pick, it does happen that the operator doesn't get paid, and may end up on the hook for the chemical. It only takes a few times like that to blow the profits. Further, if the operator is spraying herbicide that can do damage to other susceptible crops and a drift claim is made on crops, the resulting can wipe out the seasons profit very quickly. I've seen farmers who overwatered and called it a drift claim, still wiped out the profits.
Think of it somewhat like an airline pilot who encounters turbulence and the passengers decide they don't want to pay for the ride, and the captain ends up being forced to pick up the tab and pay for all the expenses of the flight, including all the ticket prices. That's the closest comparison I can think of; profits and pay can evaporate quickly. Got a streaking fuel nozzle, or does the engine need to be split at the c-flange, mid-season. That may be a quarter of a million right there. Profits? No.
The pilot who works for the owner doesn't encounter those losses, but in few cases will come remotely close to three hundred grand in a year.
When I began spraying, recall a booklet that was circulating around called something like "How to make one hundred dollars a day crop dusting." Seemed far fetched then.
My best pay in ag aircraft has been firefighting in single engine air tankers (SEATs), which on occasion has far exceeded any pay I've received doing corporate, fractional, or even wide body international work as a captain. Coincidentally, my worst pay has also come flying a SEAT. I made less flying large air tankers, but my longest fire seasons have been in large air tankers, spanning most of the year. Airline pay exceeded tanker flying, except for certain SEAT operations. The hazard faced in a SEAT is substantially different than that faced flying airline, corporate, fractional, charter, or even large air tankers, for obvious reasons. Pick one's poison.
Ag flying is a lot of fun for the first ten minutes, then it's a lot of work.
I know individuals who fly fires in the summer, and ag work in the winter, fertilizing pine plantations or other work, and fly a thousand hours over the winter. It's hard work. For the regional pilot who thinks five legs a day is bad, try 30-80 under a 400' ceiling in the wind and weather, while working from a short strip cut in between tall trees, with powerlines, no autopilot and an airplane that doesn't fly itself. One may earn something, but one works to get it.
It's not nearly as mandatory as it once was, but utility flying is still a you-break-it, you-fix-it world, and an A&P certificate is still preferred. There are still a lot of operations in which you clean and maintain and service your own aircraft, and so far as ag work, you may operate well before sunrise to well after sunset. The airplane is not there to serve you: you're there to serve it.
For fire, CDF/Calfire rules the roost with regard to pay, schedule, conditions. That said, Calfire can end up doing a lot more takeoffs and landings than other fire aircraft in the same region; I've been on federal tankers watching the S-2's and OV-10's do ten takeoffs for every one I get. Every time a run-card calls for a tanker, they go, and may get cancelled...but they go. They earn welll, but they do work for it, and when things blow up, they work hard for it, like everyone else. A number of them have paid the ultimate price for it.
Airline pilot central had several long time CDF/Calfire guys visiting. I'm not sure of their status presently.
It's recommended that if you are serious, visit a base and sit to talk with personnel during some down time. Much of the utility world is like that...far better to show up in person with questions than to call, email, or write (though it doesn't hurt to call first). A handshake across the desk carries more weight than an online resume.
Typically the farmer places the order, and the operator picks up the chemical, sprays the field. The chemical is expensive. If the farmer sees "skips" in the field, spots that have uneven coverage or weeds or any other reason the farmer might pick, it does happen that the operator doesn't get paid, and may end up on the hook for the chemical. It only takes a few times like that to blow the profits. Further, if the operator is spraying herbicide that can do damage to other susceptible crops and a drift claim is made on crops, the resulting can wipe out the seasons profit very quickly. I've seen farmers who overwatered and called it a drift claim, still wiped out the profits.
Think of it somewhat like an airline pilot who encounters turbulence and the passengers decide they don't want to pay for the ride, and the captain ends up being forced to pick up the tab and pay for all the expenses of the flight, including all the ticket prices. That's the closest comparison I can think of; profits and pay can evaporate quickly. Got a streaking fuel nozzle, or does the engine need to be split at the c-flange, mid-season. That may be a quarter of a million right there. Profits? No.
The pilot who works for the owner doesn't encounter those losses, but in few cases will come remotely close to three hundred grand in a year.
When I began spraying, recall a booklet that was circulating around called something like "How to make one hundred dollars a day crop dusting." Seemed far fetched then.
My best pay in ag aircraft has been firefighting in single engine air tankers (SEATs), which on occasion has far exceeded any pay I've received doing corporate, fractional, or even wide body international work as a captain. Coincidentally, my worst pay has also come flying a SEAT. I made less flying large air tankers, but my longest fire seasons have been in large air tankers, spanning most of the year. Airline pay exceeded tanker flying, except for certain SEAT operations. The hazard faced in a SEAT is substantially different than that faced flying airline, corporate, fractional, charter, or even large air tankers, for obvious reasons. Pick one's poison.
Ag flying is a lot of fun for the first ten minutes, then it's a lot of work.
I know individuals who fly fires in the summer, and ag work in the winter, fertilizing pine plantations or other work, and fly a thousand hours over the winter. It's hard work. For the regional pilot who thinks five legs a day is bad, try 30-80 under a 400' ceiling in the wind and weather, while working from a short strip cut in between tall trees, with powerlines, no autopilot and an airplane that doesn't fly itself. One may earn something, but one works to get it.
It's not nearly as mandatory as it once was, but utility flying is still a you-break-it, you-fix-it world, and an A&P certificate is still preferred. There are still a lot of operations in which you clean and maintain and service your own aircraft, and so far as ag work, you may operate well before sunrise to well after sunset. The airplane is not there to serve you: you're there to serve it.
For fire, CDF/Calfire rules the roost with regard to pay, schedule, conditions. That said, Calfire can end up doing a lot more takeoffs and landings than other fire aircraft in the same region; I've been on federal tankers watching the S-2's and OV-10's do ten takeoffs for every one I get. Every time a run-card calls for a tanker, they go, and may get cancelled...but they go. They earn welll, but they do work for it, and when things blow up, they work hard for it, like everyone else. A number of them have paid the ultimate price for it.
Airline pilot central had several long time CDF/Calfire guys visiting. I'm not sure of their status presently.
It's recommended that if you are serious, visit a base and sit to talk with personnel during some down time. Much of the utility world is like that...far better to show up in person with questions than to call, email, or write (though it doesn't hurt to call first). A handshake across the desk carries more weight than an online resume.
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