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Old 12-26-2022, 09:03 AM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by JBird View Post
No, seriously, I’m asking you for your sources that make you think American troops are in Ukraine fighting the russians.

Cite a reputable source or claim it as your uninformed speculation.
The US government has admitted they just moved a Patriot defense system in there. The Ukrainian military cannot be trained on those operations instantly. Which means that US operatives are there running it at least until the Ukrainians are trained, manned, and up to speed on it.
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Old 12-26-2022, 09:06 AM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by Hubcapped View Post
you are an absolute moron if you think Putin really believes the western nations of Europe have the desire or ability to invade Russia.
Well it has happened in the past, albeit foolishly. Also it should be fairly obvious they would support regime change, and by creating a wider buffer between Russia and the west it makes it harder to accomplish. And is NATO looking to invade Russia now? Well some have made vague statements to that effect. But Putin is clearly looking long into the future to help secure Russia's independence from a potential invasion and/or interference from the west.

Originally Posted by Hubcapped View Post
Since when did the right start supporting Putin ffs? It’s so weird
No one is supporting Putin, he is a bad guy. So is Zelensky. And Biden. They are all bad guys. But don't mistake understanding someone's motivations for "supporting" them.
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Old 12-26-2022, 11:09 AM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by SonicFlyer View Post
Well it has happened in the past, albeit foolishly. Also it should be fairly obvious they would support regime change, and by creating a wider buffer between Russia and the west it makes it harder to accomplish. And is NATO looking to invade Russia now? Well some have made vague statements to that effect. But Putin is clearly looking long into the future to help secure Russia's independence from a potential invasion and/or interference from the west.

No one is supporting Putin, he is a bad guy. So is Zelensky. And Biden. They are all bad guys. But don't mistake understanding someone's motivations for "supporting" them.
How is zelensky a bad guy? Please elaborate with reputable sources
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Old 12-26-2022, 12:16 PM
  #104  
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[QUOTE=SonicFlyer;3559881]Can't speak to that, but the US government has operatives in Ukraine fighting against Russia.[/QUOTE]

This is what you said originally.

Originally Posted by SonicFlyer View Post
The US government has admitted they just moved a Patriot defense system in there. The Ukrainian military cannot be trained on those operations instantly. Which means that US operatives are there running it at least until the Ukrainians are trained, manned, and up to speed on it.
Now you are saying “operatives” are in Ukraine manning Patriot missile systems why the train Ukrainians.

Buddy, I’ve been in the Army for a long time and I can assure you that “operatives” don’t man the Patriot misled systems. That is done by 14 series MOS personnel which stands for Military Operational Specialties…which is a fancy way of saying job code.

Also, the Patriot is in the Air DEFENSE Artillery branch, so if the russians don’t lob missiles over Ukraine, they won’t have to worry about the Patriot.

More than likely as Rick7777 said (I think) the systems are in Poland and will be deployed when the train up is complete…however, there are a lot of countries that operate the system and might be involved.

If you have any fact based, reputable sources to indicate Americans are manning Patriots in Ukraine, I would be very interested to see it.
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Old 12-26-2022, 12:57 PM
  #105  
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It's a message. An irresistible target. But mostly, it lends confidence the yanks are all in. Solid prospects for a longer campaign driving better than anticipated defense earnings through at least the 2nd quarter.
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Old 12-26-2022, 01:09 PM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by JBird View Post
[QUOTE=SonicFlyer;3559881]
Also, the Patriot is in the Air DEFENSE Artillery branch, so if the russians don’t lob missiles over Ukraine, they won’t have to worry about the Patriot.
The US government has zero reason to be there. The Constitution doesn't authorize it, Ukraine is not a territory or polity of the US federal government.
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Old 12-26-2022, 02:33 PM
  #107  
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https://www.politico.com/news/2022/1...tates-00075284



The Pentagon is considering training the Ukrainian armed forces to operate the Patriot missile defense system at a military base in the United States, according to two Defense Department officials.

Since Russia’s February invasion, the Ukrainian armed forces have completed training on a host of different NATO-provided weapons systems, including the U.S.-made High Mobility Artillery Rocket System, in eastern Europe, Germany and the United Kingdom.But until this point, none of the training has been done in the United States.

It would make sense to do the training in the United States, most likely at Fort Sill, Oklahoma, where most of the instructors and complex simulators are located, one of the officials said. Conducting the training in Europe would be doable but presents more logistical difficulties, the official said.

The system, which includes several support vehicles carrying control stations, radars and generators, likely won’t make it to the battlefield for many months. The military won’t transfer it to Ukraine until the Ukrainians are fully trained on how to use it, a third DoD official said Wednesday.

It’s likely the military will move a Patriot out of storage in the United States to Ukraine, instead of pulling a battery from a deployed location such as the Middle East or Europe, the official said. The latter would likely be controversial, as the batteries are in high demand across the world — particularly in Saudi Arabia and other Middle Eastern countries where they are defending against Iranian drones and cruise missiles
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Old 12-26-2022, 02:44 PM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by SonicFlyer View Post
The US government has zero reason to be there. The Constitution doesn't authorize it, Ukraine is not a territory or polity of the US federal government.
The U.S. government has every reason and right to have the State Dept, USAID, DoD members and other members of the diplomatic corps in Ukraine. They were invited to be there by the Ukrainians.

But you still have not provided a single source for your assertion that the U.S. has “operatives in Ukraine fighting against Russia.”

I hate to say it, but it seems like you enjoy just blathering uninformed, incorrect and down right goofy opinions that you expect people to accept as fact.

Do you have ANY source to indicate there are, as you call, “operatives?” Combat forces? Combat operations? Can you cite anything to support your claims? Anything at all?
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Old 12-26-2022, 02:47 PM
  #109  
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Default The Saudi Experience with Patriot missiles…

They work, but they are costly:

https://agsiw.org/saudi-arabias-patr...ssile-defense/

From Kipling’s Arithmetic on the Frontier

Strike hard who cares -- shoot straight who can --

The odds are on the cheaper man.
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Old 12-26-2022, 04:24 PM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by JBird View Post
The U.S. government has every reason and right to have the State Dept, USAID, DoD members and other members of the diplomatic corps in Ukraine.
Are they negotiating and attempting to seek a diplomatic solution?
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