UAL is hiring, and I don't even want to apply..
 

Isn't that sad?

Junior pilot there seems destined for misery..

go the united.com if you want to participate in it.

Who in their right mind would want to work for Glenn Tilton?

I mean, I don't know how someone has not gone postal on some of these CEOs. I don't think I could safely do my job working there thinking about the greedy management.

Sounds like UAL is the GoJet/Mesa of the majors. Who would have thought.

Uhhhh........? no. not analogous in any way.:confused:

a whole 100 people in 6 1/2 months. good luck!

for what it is worth, Tilton will be gone in short order, just like every other CEO nowadays. He will be off to helm some clothing company next, and United will receive a highly experienced tire company CEO who thinks he has what it takes to raise stock price during his 3 year reign.

It is sad that those who run our airlines truly have no passion for aviation. No wonder they take no pride in clean airplanes, professional staff, and return customers. Where are the eccentric millionaires of yesterday who understand that flying is more than just quick way to get from point A to point B?

Regionals over UAL
 

I have a very good friend who chose to stay at a regional and resigned his UAL seniority number after the second recall offer. He lives in base with the regional, dosen't commute, is a captain making $80+ with the potential to make $100+, and has a great QOL.

Go back to united... Sure, he retire a 75/76 captain making $150. But until then, he'd have to commute half-way across the country for years, start out at $65,000, be home 3 or 4 days per month when you take into account commute days.

You have to understand that UAL was my friends career goal. Not DAL, AA but UAL. For him to give up his seniority at his dream job, things must be REAL bad at UAL.

Rott

That has to be both one of the funniest and at the same time sadly truest things I've read on here in a while.

What happened to when airlines were run by people who ACTUALLY wanted to be in the airplane business? Guys like Juan Tripp, Box Six, Herb Kelleher, and Howard Hughes but to name a few?

Greed happened.

Greed from the CEOs and VPs, greed from the owners that made the companies public, greed from the shareholders demanding lower costs instead of higher revenue because one is easier than the other to achieve.

They're flying NetJets.

Uhhhhhh....Yes. I would say so and I think the analogy is perfect. Next time dad (captain) comes home happy with his job at UAL will be when he quits. By the way, it wasn't my analogy, it was the captains'. I think I'll take his word over someone on the forum.


Very true and very sad. The best airline CEOs were, in my opinion, Juan Trippe and the owner of National Airlines (I forgot his name, sorry). The National Airlines owner actually flew trips and loved to ride on the jumpseat and watch the guys fly; he definitely had a passion for flying. He was without a doubt the best CEO ever! I don't know much about him, but Richard Branson seems to be well liked by his employees and collegues too.

Im a huge fan of the GED you need to get in the door...

P.S. - I always thought Branson was pretty much universally hated with a few exceptions.

An interesting choice, but one that I would venture to guess that most regional pilots would be hesitant to make. Everyone's personal circumstances are different though.

The thing that amazes me about this forum (and I'm not necessarily speaking to you specifically, Rott) is the shortsightedness of many who post here and the inability to recognize the cyclical nature of this industry. To say that UAL is the Mesa of the majors is absurd. To think that the UAL pilot group will stand for a crappy contract forever is to grossly misjudge the collective will of the pilots.

I would agree that the UAL pilots took a huge hit in bankruptcy - but it will NOT be like that forever. It may take til 2009 to get back much of what was lost, but hopefully it will happen sooner. To say that morale is in the toilet, as I have read many times here from people who are not UAL pilots, is also a bit of a misnomer. It would be more accurate to say that the pilots are angry at managements actions and failings to act. They want change and recognize that the wrong people are running this company. But most guys don't come to work *****ing and moaning and crying about the state of affairs for 12 hours straight. Instead,they know things need to change and are willing to do what it takes, but are not going to dwell on it throughout the workday. I genuinely enjoy flying with 99% of the people here.

Furthermore, to say that the pay/work rules are the worst in the industry is also incorrect. If you look at the pay calculator available here, and factor in the 15% B-fund (401k) company contribution which most airlines don't have, that puts UAL pilots somewhere in the middle. That being said, I am not satisfied with that. We once had an industry-leading contract, and that is where I want to be again. My point being that, if you're looking to apply at UAL, the compensation is better than most flying jobs and certainly better than any regional that I'm aware of - and it IS going to get better.

If you're thinking of applying to UAL, I would offer a few items for consideration. On the positive side, the UAL pilots contract IS going to improve. This pilot group is dedicated to that. UAL offers all types of flying from 737s to widebodys around the world. The people here, senior mgmt excluded, are good people and great to work with. On the negative side, if a merger comes down the pike or age 65 happens, you may be stuck on the bottom of the list for awhile if you just got hired. But that's the risk you run at any airline.

There are no guarantees. As the saying goes in this industry, you never know if you made the right career decisions until the day you retire. I would just hate to see good pilots discouraged from applying at UAL. While the current management team leaves a lot (okay, everything) to be desired, this is still a worthwhile company.

The negotiation to get back what the pilots gave away will take FOREVER to get back. Even though the new contract is due in 2009, the pilots are not going to get one that was even close to pre 9/11. UAL pilots will get it back if they all strike. But the company might merge before then....That's what Tilton is waiting on! That will negate any advancement in contract gains! It is not going to get better there for a long long time. Your fingers are going to stay crossed for a while. Contract...getting better? Dream on.

You don't think the morale is bad at UAL??? It is the absolute WORST it has ever been! Your contract on the 67 is a bit different than ours. Your views would be greatly changed if you flew the 737; the FO's I fly with are ready to quit their jobs and tell UAL to shove it! You wide body guys are on a different planet sometimes, I swear. Come join us here on the 37's and then tell me that life is great at UAL. Still isn't great even on the wide body, in my honest opinion.

UAL use to be a great place to work. I had a great schedule on the DC-10 and the 27's. I made more as an FO on the DC-10 then I did on the 737 now as a captain. I don't know how long you've been at UAL or in the airline industry but I have never seen it this bad at National, Pan AM or UAL (10 years ago). My advice: stay away from UAL and get a job at FedEx or find another profession. I keep trying to tell my son to get into another profession but he doesn't listen. :D I certainly wish you the best of luck at UAL if that's where you decide to go but be forewarned, it's not much different than Mesa and my sons' analogy hit it right on the head!

SCM
UAL 737 captain, ORD

Capt M:

First of all, I agree we will not get back to Contract 2000. Not with the next contract, maybe not ever. But it will improve. Do you really think it won't? Of course Tilton is planning on a merger, he's only said so a thousand times. We'll have to deal with that when it happens and prepare for it as best we can.

As for morale, this is what I said: "most guys don't come to work *****ing and moaning and crying about the state of affairs for 12 hours straight. Instead, they know things need to change and are willing to do what it takes, but are not going to dwell on it throughout the workday." In other words, do what you can to improve things, whether that's FIN or no jr manning or whatever, but don't come to work to roll around in your own misery and complain constantly. Not many do that and I would hope that you don't either. I know I wouldn't want to fly with someone who was constantly complaining.

As for the Mesa comparison - please, get real. I mean no disrespect to you or your son, but the analogy is ludicrous. I've been at UAL for over 10 years. Before that I was at - you guessed it - Mesa. No matter how bad you think things have become, and I was here for the good times too, we are not Mesa. My apologies to the Mesa crowd, but I've been there and am glad I am not anymore. I got what I needed from Mesa - the time and experience to get hired somewhere else.

I am not saying UAL is all peaches and cream. If that's what you got out of my post, then you need to go back and read it again. Our contract is a shell of what it was when we led the industry in 2000. We are going to have to fight for every improvement to our contract - but I AM willing to fight.

Before you go about steering everyone away from applying at UAL, maybe you should take a close look at what flying jobs are really out there. If you think we're not much different than Mesa, take a look at their contract. Seriously. Look at it. I am tired of all the misinformation out there about United. I even read some guy post that United is only above "some bottom-of-the-barrel regionals and some unscheduled 135s." Come on. That type of crap helps no one. Least of all the good men and women who are trying to decide what their next career step should be.

Right now UAL is not as good an option as FDX, UPS, SWA, etc. But this industry is cyclical and it will get better here. We will have to fight for it, but it will get better. So if you're determined to have a career flying planes, UAL is not a bad choice.

Cactus,

I still stand by my comments about UAL.

I have not read the contract eye to eye in regards to Mesa but I do discuss it with the Mesa crew whilst jumpseating on them for the benefit of my son. Maybe he will listen and get the hell out of this industry! And you're right, the contracts are not the same but they certainly have similarties from the sound of it!

I respect that you want to fight for a better life at UAL. I did that once upon a time too. It never worked, it never got better. UAL's union absolutely sucks and needs to grow a set of balls if the contract is to improve in the slightest.

Please, don't misunderstand me about the morale. I was speaking in regards to management; they have the morale of a high school bully. I thoroughly enjoy flying with the people at UAL. They are absolutely outstanding people and they derserve much better than what they have here. I don't foresee a great contract within the next 10 years but for your sake and all the other pilots here, I hope it changes. Seriously, lives have been ruined in the wake of the paycuts and other cuts. I can't imagine it will get any worse.

Right now, I don't think UAL is a great choice unless you are willing to work sub-par for the next 10 years, at least. Compared to working at a regional UAL would be better, but far from great. Cactus, I seriously wish the absolute best for you and I hope to god things take a 180 to a brighter future at UAL. I'll chime in again sometime on a more enjoyable topic....like a seabee topic!! :D It's time for me to stop sabotaging my sons airline pilot account. Again, all the best for you cactus.

SCM
UAL 737 captain, ORD

I thought I was the only furloughed major airline pilot truly considering staying at a regional. Maybe I'm not as screwed in the head as I feel like most guys think I am.

To go back to USAir and commute for 20-25 years (assuming I don't end up back on the street due to another 9/11 or merger) just seems almost silly. Morale in the tank, long upgrade, bitter pilot groups, crappy operation, zero growth, and a commute halfway across the country just for a couple thousand bucks a month? Hardly seems worth it anymore. Money alone really ain't all that important, but it sure is hard to pass up!

Or I can live where I really want to live, drive 25 mins to work, fly 2-day trips and see my kids everyday, and have more vacation time and better travel privileges. Fortunately I've grown used to living on very little money and not buying new stuff I cannot afford, so once I make captain here I'll be in pretty good shape.

I guess we'll see if I've really learned my lessons pretty soon when my last call comes 'round. It's purely QOL vs. Money. I pray that I don't screw up another decision! At least now I know I'm not the only one who feels this way. Thanks.

Wtf?!
 

Did this guy really go get his daddy to defend him!?! I think I'm starting to get the picture. Explains some of the posts in the past.

Hey "captain" if you want to post get an account.

Sincerely,

Deez's Dad
787 Senior Check Airman, Astronaut:rolleyes:

PS

United is in no way analogous to Gojet and only slightly and hopefully temporally analogous to Mesa.

Sorry dude, Mike wasn't an astronaut, though he has flown several missions for Boeing while engaged in research conducted by NASA.

Good try, though.

There are no guarantees. As the saying goes in this industry, you never know if you made the right career decisions until the day you retire. I would just hate to see good pilots discouraged from applying at UAL. While the current management team leaves a lot (okay, everything) to be desired, this is still a worthwhile company.[/QUOTE]

Sadly one can't even say that...guys left UAL with a fat A-Plan and a boatload of "valuable" stock only to see it evaporate. Now you might know you made the right choice after you get your lump sum A-Plan like some of the lucky ones at USAir. The biggest wild card in the longer term for UAL is the cabotage boogieman, since the real cream of UAL is their international, and God help us all if Chinese and Indian pilots get their foot in the door.

This conversation reminds me of Robert Redford telling Paul Newman that he can’t jump because he can’t swim. Paul Newman laughs and say “ hell, the fall will probably kill you.
So all of you out there think your safe? Over the years United has had BAD contracts and Great contracts. But what really gets me are those of you who ***** and tell young people to find another career, yet you keep coming back to the world you love. Getting paid to fly airplanes. What else would you recommend , Cop, Lawyer, Fireman?
It’s like many say “ if you don’t like the weather wait 15 minutes and it will change”. If you can’t wait the 15 minutes then go find your sunshine.
20 years now with United and I wouldn’t trade with anyone. The young guys who are working their butts off now will rake in the benefits with time like I did. Large airplanes, Asia, Europe, South America, our route structure is second to none.
And Tilton’s pipe dream of getting approval to merge with even a Virgin America is making turns in the toilet as this administration is his only hope.
It will take time and effort to get a contract that will put United back as one of the most coveted airlines. Patents grasshopper.

"turns in the toilet"?
"Patents grasshopper"?
****?

That's all you've got!

Get your facts straight, meat head. The only picture your getting is the one drawn up from your own self reightious bulls&#t. It's not your account so wtf do you care? He reads some of the nonsense on here sometimes and I invited him to use my account if he ever wanted to. He wasn't defending anything, just sharing his opinion on UAL. If your trying to start a flame fest, go get your jollies elsewhere. 787 checkairman my a$$. Doubt you're even a pilot.

Umm, I think he was joking...

Maybe you're right. :confused:

Easily one of the Top Ten Movie Moments of all Time, possibly top five.

You think it's possible that this user let his dad post under his account because dad doesn't have a user profile at APC? Are you flaming both users because the dad is posting under an available profile (and offered the courtesy of disclosing that), or do you take issue with the content of the post?

Definitely top five!! Should go and watch it tonight.

You know what, you're right. I was surprised to see dad post with such negativity and even mention that he is trying to get me out of the industry. LOL! He's honestly a great captain to fly with, very kind, curtious and professional but very sour when airline politics come up. I'm not trying to save him face or defend him but please understand that he has been through hell and high water with National being bought out, then furloughed, then hired by Pan Am, then furloughed, then hired back, then Pan Am goes out of business, then UAL and now the current situation that all UAL pilots are experiencing. He wasn't blessed with being at UAL for 20 + years, he was counting on Pan Am for that kind of seniority. Who would have expected Pan Am to kick the bucket? I sure didn't when he got hired there. He views on the industry have been drastically changed through all of this and he doesn't want anyone to have to deal with the same crap he's been through....I think if he was on here regularly, it would be like having two "skyhighs" on the forum. No offense skyhigh, I think you're a great guy and I enjoy chatting with you! :D

Hi!

U don't have to worrry about Indian or Chinese pilots for at least 10 and probably 20 years. They aren't any.

And they few that exist, are paid pretty well.

India needs 11,000 airline pilots in the next 3 years. In 2006 India trained 150.

China needs at least 9,000 airline pilots the next 3 years. They currently train 1,000 per year.

cliff
YIP

I knew a guy who went to work for UAL in the late 60's and sat side saddle for nearly 20 years before upgrading..... He retired now from UAL as a captain.... and loved that company even though it took him 20 years to move to the right seat.

I guess my point is that this business may throw you a curve ball and everyone has to decide to live with it or not..... Every flying job ( three ) that i have had, had pluses and minuses just like in the real world... it is what it is, either you stay in this business or you dont. The key is finding the niche in this business that best fits your life.....

Holy flying squirrels, Batman!! 11,000 pilots in 3 years?!?! That's about 4,000 pilots a year! They must be hiring like crazy as we speak. Uhemm....Anyone got info on Air India?? :D

I foresee these two countries contracting to American flight schools again. At our flight school alone a couple of years ago we trained hundreds and hundreds of Chinese flight students. In fact, we were training so many Chinese students on top of an already swamped airport with about four flight schools on it that KRVS got put in the top %10 of the countries biggest airports (Even today we are more than twice as busy as Tulsa International, according to the FAA anyways).

The flying club at LGB was loaded with students from China, Japan and India. I mean loaded to the rim! Rainbow Air was the same situation but with 4 times the students from those countries. All of them were on the career program on their own dime and wanted to go back home and fly for Air India, JAL, ANA, ACH, etc. They said the jobs were easy to get if you trained in the states; whether that's true or not, I don't know.

It's not Air India I would be looking into. It's the start ups, King Fisher and Jet Airways.

About six months ago, I was sitting next to a Legacy 777 CA about to retire. He had just interviewed for the Jet Airways direct entry 777 CA job. There were 3 or 4 other US legacy 777 CA's there with him he said. The pay package was pretty good, better than any US legacy just based on monthly gar X pay rate.

Are the crews required to live in India? If so, you might want to visit first.

I asked, he said NO. If it was, he would not take the job. I think he said it was a European base (ams, I think) with a pos space back and forth to the US with 9 day off gaps between work blocks. I believe he said the work blocks were 9 days as well.

As of that time Jet had no US destinations. He said if/when they do get them, it will be a ticket from your home to the US departure/destination point.

Home based with a ticket sounds like a very good deal.

Hey, AMS doesn't sound bad! I could sail the channel on my days off or go tour some of Europe. That would be a great gig for a while.

Well, when I said AMS, it was where trips org/term, not where he is based. It's where the airline has expat crew start/stop. Much like many US ACMI carriers commercial their crews to Europe to pick up their trip. To my understanding, they are not going to sponsor you for an EU work permit, nor right to abode in the EU. They buy you a ticket from the US to AMS to start/end your trip.

Now if you wanted to spend your off time there, then whatever. But as far as residing, see above. Or, you would have to do the whole leave the country, come back in, but stay less than 90 days thing.