Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Pilot Lounge > Hangar Talk
FAA Disallows Remote MX Supervision >

FAA Disallows Remote MX Supervision

Search

Notices
Hangar Talk For non-aviation-related discussion and aviation threads that don't belong elsewhere

FAA Disallows Remote MX Supervision

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 09-26-2024 | 08:42 AM
  #1  
Thread Starter
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,014
Likes: 1
From: Retired NJA & AA
Default FAA Disallows Remote MX Supervision

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...ource=hs_email

No more supervision of unlicensed Mx techs by licensed supervisors via video chat or any other means except in person.
Reply
Old 09-26-2024 | 08:59 AM
  #2  
rickair7777's Avatar
Prime Minister/Moderator
Veteran: Navy
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 44,908
Likes: 694
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Default

Yeah!

I said in the early days of covid that 100% remote work wouldn't last, not even close.
Reply
Old 09-27-2024 | 07:47 PM
  #3  
Disinterested Third Party
 
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,758
Likes: 74
Default

While I have a long-standing profound respect for Mike Busch, he and I have disagreed on several occasions, and I do not agree with his position in this case. The thrust of the article centers on Mike's argument against the Chief Legal Counsel interpretation, and all due respect to Mike Busch, his argument is self-serving and does not reflect the reality of the industry, including maintenance/repair organizations, repair stations, etc. Mike's business, Savvy Aviation, centers on counseling aircraft owners remotely (as well as books, audio tapes, and other products and services). Mike's services have significant value, meaning retaining his services, counsel, and publications is buying a lot of understanding and experience. It's a good investment. However, his assertion that remote supervision is a common component of MRO services is misplaced. It is not. Moreover, his aassertion that the Legal Counsel interpretation puts an undue burden on repair stations by requiring them to employ supervisory mechanics is not correct.

It is true that repair stations can and do employ non-certificated mechanics, but it must be understood that when working under a repair station certificate, it is not common to sign off work under one's own mechanic certification. Rather, the repair station certificate is the umbrella certification that's used to sign off the work. I may work for a repair station (and have), but most of the time if I sign off a repair, alteration, modification, or inspection, I would not use my mechanic certificate number on the paperwork, but the repair station certificate number, and my name, as an authorized employee under that certificate. Likewise, one may be an inspector in a repair station without working under one's own inspection authorization (IA): the authorization to inspect is grated under the authority of the repair station, and an inspector working for that repair station must meet all of the criterial applicable to that repair station authorization, including the training, testing, qualification, experience, drug testing, etc. The approved acceptable tools, methods, and techniques must be used, and in many cases, certified, tested, and logged equipment, tested and maintained under the repair certificate holder, must be used.

The notion that repair stations are simply a collection of unqualified, unapproved apprentices that get approvel telephonically or via an internet connection, is ridiculous. Apprentice mechanics do work in repair stations, but always under the close supervision of experienced and qualified mechanics (certificated or otherwise, and all ultimately work under authorized personnel under the repair station certificate. I can't imagine supervising a mechanic, or someone doing maintenance duties, simply by an internet connection or telephone call.

Busch is correct that it's not reasonable that a supervising mechanic hovers over the work 100% of the time, without blinking. There is a difference, however, between the owner-assisted annual, for example, where the owner might open the airframe and close it (fairings, covers, inspection plates, etc, and something far more involved such as directing a cylinder replacement remotely. It's not sufficient that a mechanic simply justify his remote observation by saying "I'm ultimately responsible, so it's up to me if I do it online. The regulation requires the mechanic to have a more direct role, and the FAA expects it. This is not unreasonable. I have no problem enlisting an owner to open inspection panels. I have no intention of telling an uncertificated mechanic or owner to do a cylinder change remotely, and then sign it off after that irresponsibly indirect level of supervision or control. No way. The idea that repair stations will suffer as a result of this interpretation is overblown and misplaced.
Reply
Old 09-27-2024 | 07:58 PM
  #4  
JamesNoBrakes's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,150
Likes: 48
From: Volleyball Player
Default

A similar question is whether inspections for aircraft requiring ferry permits can be done remotely, like via pictures/video.



In regards to the decision, of course, the entire reason they are using MROs in remote/foreign locations is to do the labor for pennies on the dollar. Outsourced to foreign countries to save $$$ instead of US labor...not sure if there's much sympathy there.
Reply
Old 10-17-2024 | 01:48 PM
  #5  
Disinterested Third Party
 
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,758
Likes: 74
Default

Effective two days ago, the FAA has suspended the Moss legal interpretation from September 3rd, pending further review.

The EAA's (experimental aircraft association) position is that the language of 14 CFR 43.3 predates the FAA's formation in 1958, regarding supervision of work performed (and availability, in person).

I maintain, however, that under no circumstances, would I ever put my certificate on the line to "supervise" someone's work that I couldn't directly see, in person. A video conference or pictures texted back and forth won't cut it .

I will be interested to see how this plays out.
Reply
Old 10-18-2024 | 12:40 PM
  #6  
Thread Starter
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,014
Likes: 1
From: Retired NJA & AA
Default

Originally Posted by JohnBurke
Effective two days ago, the FAA has suspended the Moss legal interpretation from September 3rd, pending further review.

The EAA's (experimental aircraft association) position is that the language of 14 CFR 43.3 predates the FAA's formation in 1958, regarding supervision of work performed (and availability, in person).

I maintain, however, that under no circumstances, would I ever put my certificate on the line to "supervise" someone's work that I couldn't directly see, in person. A video conference or pictures texted back and forth won't cut it .

I will be interested to see how this plays out.
Here's an article about it:

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...hsmi=329653049
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Flyer77CA
American
72
01-23-2024 02:53 PM
FA24
Southwest
0
11-12-2019 09:37 AM
USMC3197
Regional
66
11-12-2009 06:54 PM
CRM1337
Major
1
10-02-2005 07:12 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Your Privacy Choices