Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

Welcome to Airline Pilot Forums - Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ. Join our community today and start interacting with existing members. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free.


User Tag List

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-13-2007, 10:45 AM   #1  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
wmupilot85's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Dec 2006
Position: Reclined seat
Posts: 605
Default Power Attitude Trim. PAT vs APT

I am having a debate with someone, who claims Attitude, Power, Trim is the proper order to deal with level flight. I tell him that once you change power settings, you changing lift also (either airspeed or prop), so another pitch attitude is required. Since he doesn't believe me, what your opnions on here. Who teaches what method?
wmupilot85 is offline  
Old 08-13-2007, 11:37 AM   #2  
Flying Farmer
 
Ewfflyer's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Turbo-props' and John Deere's
Posts: 3,159
Default

I'm confused on exactly what are you trying to say? What do you mean "deal with level flight?"

Yes, when you change power, you'll gain/lose airspeed, assuming you correct with pitch and trim corrections for the speed change, you can maintain altitude. Now say you pull the power, but don't change pitch, well you descend, vice versa with a power addition. In the end, there's not really a specific order, because most of these are done simutaniously as far as pitch/trim are concerned.

I'm just throwing out scenarios' to make sure we're on the same page, or maybe I'll cover it with all the randomness.
Ewfflyer is offline  
Old 08-13-2007, 11:40 AM   #3  
Big Poppa
 
LeoSV's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Posts: 609
Default

I set my power before trimming. if you trim and then set power, you will either climb or descend because of changes in lift. your power setting at cruise is different than your climb/descent power settings.
LeoSV is offline  
Old 08-13-2007, 12:04 PM   #4  
Chief Jeppesen Updater
 
FlyerJosh's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Executive Transport Driver
Posts: 3,047
Default

Ummm- can I say that in the whole scheme of things it doesn't matter? Flying isn't an exact science.

You're debating TECHNIQUE. What works for one person isn't necessarily the best for another depending on personal flying style and preference.

Personally I often trim simultaneously as I change pitch or power. Right way, wrong way, doesn't matter as long as you get the job done and your student understands what the primary concept is of the maneuver.
FlyerJosh is offline  
Old 08-13-2007, 02:12 PM   #5  
Blue Light Special
 
mcartier713's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: Learjet 45 & G-IV
Posts: 618
Default

i always understood it as you adjust pitch and power together simultaneously, then trim it out.... granted it all depends on the stiuation
mcartier713 is offline  
Old 08-13-2007, 02:35 PM   #6  
Gets Weekends Off
 
the King's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: JS32 FO
Posts: 845
Default

I teach Pitch, Power, Trim. When I do it, it comes out closer to simultaneous though. I'd suggest Pitch before Power on the principle of sight picture. Even in IMC, you know where the approximate position of straight and level is. Pitch for it, set the power to the proper setting, and begin trimming to relieve pressure. Then double check the instruments or visual reference and make fine adjustments.
the King is offline  
Old 08-13-2007, 02:39 PM   #7  
Gets Weekends Off
 
the King's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: JS32 FO
Posts: 845
Default

Oh, the reason I don't do power first is because you usually want to get somewhere fast. By pulling the power back first, you lose some airspeed while pitching. If you pitch first, the airspeed increases momentarily until you pull that power back. That would be especially bad if leveling out from a nose-high unusual attitude or recovering from a climb is slow-flight.
the King is offline  
Old 08-13-2007, 04:34 PM   #8  
Moderator
 
Cubdriver's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: ATP, CFI etc.
Posts: 5,988
Default

That's also a good habit to use in the pattern. Pilots will pull the power back then pitch down abeam the numbers, but if you keep it in and adjust pitch first you get there quicker and waste less time. The typical thought is, if you are trying to deploy some flaps and you are near the top of white arc, you will make airspeed too slow to reduce without removing power, so most people prefer to pull that first and let the airspeed reduce. On the other hand, coming off cruise for a gradual, 500 fpm descent the easiest thing to do is ease back the power a bit and let the airplane naturally descend. It depends on the particular situation.

Last edited by Cubdriver; 08-13-2007 at 04:43 PM.
Cubdriver is offline  
 
 
 

 
Post Reply
 



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:41 AM.