The new conundrum
11-06-2007, 09:25 PM
#1
Che Guevara
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,408
The new conundrum
With the way things have been going in the aviation industry there appears to be a new conundrum that most of us have never experienced before. Just a short few years ago the plan of success and career progression was a simple plan; flight instruct, go regional, go mainline. Obviously there are always exceptions and each individual had their own tailored plan but in general these were the typical thoughts.
Now days things are starting to change. With the majors as well as fractionals making a hiring push other sectors are starting to see the need for pilots as well. Their mins are starting to drop at a more rapid rate than the majors and they pay is starting to increase. This brings new opportunities that weren't normally considered by most.
A captain and I were flying today. We had a few 2+hr trips so we were able to get in-depth about this topic. We decided to pick a few ultimate goals and work backwards. We decided to talk about UPS.
What's the path of least resistance? Lets pretend we have two pilots with 2000hrs TT. There's pilot "A" who works at a regional with a 2yr upgrade. In roughly 3.5 years, if all goes well, he/she could expect to have roughly 1000hrs pic.
Pilot "B" decides to take another route. Pilot B gets on with an ACMI company. Figure 4yr upgrade instead of 2yr. In 5yrs pilot B could expect to have roughly 1000hrs PIC in a larger aircraft ranging from 727/757/DC-10/MD-11/747 etc.
5yrs later we now have pilot A who flew a regional jet and has, just for numbers sake, 6500hrs TT and 2500ish PIC jet. (900hrs/yr [75hrs*12])
5yrs later we have pilot B who flew internationally in larger jets with 5900hrs TT(780hrs/yr [65hrs*12]), 780hrs PIC jet.
Who is more marketable? The pilot with the PIC time or the pilot with the overseas experience?
Several have been sticking with the "Stay where you are and get the PIC experience" while others have said "Get the heavy and international experience". Does PIC really rule the house at all cost?
Some things to consider are the amount of time required for the flight hrs. Does someone really need the 1000hrs PIC to move on? We've seen Continental hiring FO's from regionals that meet all requirements. Do you take the regional route for the quicker upgrade that might benefit you more now, getting the pic quicker and making you a candidate faster, or take the slightly longer road that takes longer to get all the hour requirements but when you do finally meet them you'll have international and heavy experience?
The way these ACMI carriers are now hiring there are many possibilities out there and it's becoming more difficult to choose.
Now days things are starting to change. With the majors as well as fractionals making a hiring push other sectors are starting to see the need for pilots as well. Their mins are starting to drop at a more rapid rate than the majors and they pay is starting to increase. This brings new opportunities that weren't normally considered by most.
A captain and I were flying today. We had a few 2+hr trips so we were able to get in-depth about this topic. We decided to pick a few ultimate goals and work backwards. We decided to talk about UPS.
What's the path of least resistance? Lets pretend we have two pilots with 2000hrs TT. There's pilot "A" who works at a regional with a 2yr upgrade. In roughly 3.5 years, if all goes well, he/she could expect to have roughly 1000hrs pic.
Pilot "B" decides to take another route. Pilot B gets on with an ACMI company. Figure 4yr upgrade instead of 2yr. In 5yrs pilot B could expect to have roughly 1000hrs PIC in a larger aircraft ranging from 727/757/DC-10/MD-11/747 etc.
5yrs later we now have pilot A who flew a regional jet and has, just for numbers sake, 6500hrs TT and 2500ish PIC jet. (900hrs/yr [75hrs*12])
5yrs later we have pilot B who flew internationally in larger jets with 5900hrs TT(780hrs/yr [65hrs*12]), 780hrs PIC jet.
Who is more marketable? The pilot with the PIC time or the pilot with the overseas experience?
Several have been sticking with the "Stay where you are and get the PIC experience" while others have said "Get the heavy and international experience". Does PIC really rule the house at all cost?
Some things to consider are the amount of time required for the flight hrs. Does someone really need the 1000hrs PIC to move on? We've seen Continental hiring FO's from regionals that meet all requirements. Do you take the regional route for the quicker upgrade that might benefit you more now, getting the pic quicker and making you a candidate faster, or take the slightly longer road that takes longer to get all the hour requirements but when you do finally meet them you'll have international and heavy experience?
The way these ACMI carriers are now hiring there are many possibilities out there and it's becoming more difficult to choose.
11-06-2007, 09:55 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
Posts: 4,357
There is no "conumdrum" (conundrum).
20 years ago I'd have told you pilot B was the way to go. It's no different today.
All these years, if someone asked me, I said "the bigger the jet the more you were set apart from the RJ guys". Do anything to set yourself apart. Checkairman helps as well.
20 years ago I'd have told you pilot B was the way to go. It's no different today.
All these years, if someone asked me, I said "the bigger the jet the more you were set apart from the RJ guys". Do anything to set yourself apart. Checkairman helps as well.
11-07-2007, 05:11 AM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: DC9 Capt.
Posts: 108
Over a 20 or 30 year career, the only thing that is certain is that EVERYTHING will change. When I started flying, FED/UPS and the like didn't even exist and regionals were flying Beech 99's and Navajos. The best bet in aviation was to get on with a safe legacy carrier, like PanAm, or Eastern, or Branniff (the first one). You will not know if you have made the right choices until the day you set the parking brake on retirement day-then wait around 25 more years and see if they screw you out of your pension.
But, laddie, it IS a great ride!!
But, laddie, it IS a great ride!!
11-07-2007, 05:37 AM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: KC-135R IP/EP
Posts: 273
Pilot B probably made more money (pay and per diem), got layovers in Munich, Bangkok, Anchorage, Honolulu, and Paris...Pilot A got layovers in Buffalo, Des Moines, and Greensboro. When pilot B hits his 5 year point, he's a 5 yr MD-11 capt already making $140/hr (hypothetically) and pilot A is a 5 yr ERJ capt making $70/hr, sooooooo...let's say another slowdown in pilot hiring happens, yes, I know that NEVER happens in aviation, HR ALWAYS knows when and how many pilots to hire but let's say it does and UPS and FEDEx aren't hiring that year so both pilots are stuck where they are...hmmmn, $140/hr and layovers in London or $70 and layovers in Rochester?
I know your point was which is better, 2500 RJ PIC or 900 MD-11 PIC, I'd go with the MD-11 plus it's a "safer" bet in the long run...just my .$02...
I know your point was which is better, 2500 RJ PIC or 900 MD-11 PIC, I'd go with the MD-11 plus it's a "safer" bet in the long run...just my .$02...
