A Delta Captain's Insight on 9/11 (FACT?)
12-25-2007, 07:31 PM
#1
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 91
A Delta Captain's Insight on 9/11 (FACT?)
Sent to me by a non-aviaton friend. Fact or Fiction. I'm thinking BS....very good BS. Although it would explain why uniformed pilots are searched at TSA check points. 
P.S. Sorry if this is a repost.
Please Discuss.
For you non airline readers, the "jump seat" is one or more extra seats in
the cockpit (depending on the airplane model) that the Captain may allow
pilots from other airlines to ride on, free, with the proper ID. Prior to
coming to the cockpit to request permission to ride the Passenger Service
Agent has checked the person in the computer for "security reasons."
As you realize when you read this, the terrorists knew how to beat the
system.
On 9/11 some of the terrorists were riding in the cockpit on these very
"jump seat" passes... imagine sitting there making idle talk with the crew
for over an hour, knowing you were going to cut their throats in a few
minutes....
As a Delta B-767 captain myself at the time of the attacks on 9/11 I was in
crew rest in Orlando that morning. I had just turned on the TV in my hotel
room only to see the WTC tower on fire, then saw the second airplane hit the
other tower. My immediate reaction was "Terrorists...we're at war",
followed by the realization that we airline crewmembers had all dodged a
bullet; it could have been any one of us flying those planes. As soon as
the news stations flashed the first pictures of the terrorists I knew just
how close and personal the bullet I dodged was. There, on the screen for
all to see, was a man who had sat in my jumpseat the previous July.
His name was Mohammad Atta, the leader of the terrorist hijackers. Atta had
boarded my flight from Baltimore to Atlanta on July 26, 2001 wearing an
American Airlines first officer uniform. He had the corresponding AA
company ID identifying him as a pilot, not to mention the required FAA pilot
license and medical certificate that he was required to show me as proof of
his aircrew status for access to my jumpseat. An airline pilot riding a
cockpit jumpseat is a long established protocol among the airlines of the
world, a courtesy extended by the management and captains of one airline to
pilots and flight attendants of other airlines in recognition of their
aircrew status. My admission of Mohammad Atta to my cockpit jumpseat that
day was merely a routine exercise of this protocol.
Something seemed a bit different about this jumpseat rider, though, because
in my usual course of conversation with him as we reached cruise altitude he
avoided all my questions about his personal life and focused very intently
upon the cockpit instruments and our operation of the aircraft. I asked him
what he flew at American and he said, "These", but he asked incessant
questions about how we did this or why we did that. I said, "This is a 767.
They all operate the same way." But he said, "No, we operate them
differently at American." That seemed very strange, because I knew better.
I asked him about his background, and he admitted he was from Saudi Arabia.
I asked him when he came over to this country and he said "A couple of years
ago.", to which I asked, "Are you a US citizen?" He said no. I also found
that very strange because I know that in order to have an Airline Transport
Pilot rating, the rating required to be an airline captain, one has to be a
US citizen, and knowing the US airlines and their hiring processes as I do,
I found it hard to believe that American Airlines would hire a non-US
citizen who couldn't upgrade to captain when the time came. He said, "The
rules have changed.", which I also knew to be untrue. Besides, he was just,
shall I say, "Creepy"? My copilot and I were both glad to get rid of this
guy when we got to Atlanta.
There was nothing to indicate, though, that he was anything other than who
or what he said he was, because he had the documentation to prove who he
was. In retrospect, we now know his uniform was stolen and his documents
were forged. Information later came to light as to how this was done.
It seems that Mohammad Atta and his cronies had possibly stolen pilot
uniforms and credentials from hotel rooms during the previous year. We had
many security alerts at the airline to watch out for our personal items in
hotel rooms because these were mysteriously disappearing, but nobody knew
why. Atta and his men used these to make dry runs prior to their actual
hijackings on 9/11. How do I know? I called the FBI as soon as I saw his
face on the TV that day, and the agent on the other end of the line took my
information and told me I'd hear back from them when all the dust settled.
A few weeks later I got a letter from the Bureau saying that my call was one
of at least half a dozen calls that day from other pilots who had the same
experience. Flights were being selected at random to make test runs for
accessing the cockpit. It seems we had all dodged bullets.
Over the years my attitude towards the War Against Terrorism and the wars in
Afghanistan and Iraq have been known to be on the red neck, warmongering,
rah-rah-shoot-em-up side of things. I've been known to lose my patience
with those who say the war in Iraq or anywhere else in the Muslim world is
wrong, or who say we shouldn't become involved in that area of the world for
political correctness reasons. Maybe it's because I dodged the bullet so
closely back in 2001 that I feel this way. I have very little patience for
political rhetoric or debate against this war because for a couple of hours
back in July 2001, when I was engaged in conversation with a major
perpetrator in this war, I came so close to being one of its victims that I
can think in no other terms.
I don't mind admitting that one of the reasons I retired early from Delta
last May, other than to protect my disappearing company retirement, was
because it became harder and harder for me to go to work every day knowing
that the war wasn't being taken seriously by the general public. The worst
offenders were the Liberal detractors to the present administration, and
right or wrong, this administration is at least taking the bull by the horns
and fighting our enemies, which is something concrete that I can appreciate.
Nobody was taking this war seriously, and it seems everyone found fault with
the US government rather than with those who attacked us. I found that
incomprehensible.
I also found myself being scrutinized by TSA screeners more and more every
day when I went to work, and suffered the humiliating indignity of being
identified about half the time for body searches in front of the general
flying public who looked at the entire process as being ludicrous. "They
don't even trust their own pilots!" accompanied by an unbelieving snicker
was the usual response. Here I was, a retired USAF officer who had been
entrusted to fly nuclear weapons around the world, who had been granted a
Top Secret clearance and had been on missions over the course of 21 years in
the military that I still can't talk about without fear of prosecution by
the DoD, who was being scanned by a flunkie TSA screener looking for any
sign of a pen knife or nail file on my person.
It wasn't until six months after my retirement when my wife and I flew to
Key West, FL last November that I was finally able to rid myself of the
visage of Mohammad Atta sitting behind me on my jumpseat, watching my every action in the cockpit and willing to slit my throat at the slightest
provocation. I missed being a headline by a mere 47 days, and could very
well have been among the aircrew casualties on 9/11 had one of my flights on my monthly schedule been a transcontinental flight from Boston or New York to the west coast on the 11th of September. Very few people know that, while only four airliners crashed that day, four more were targeted, and two of them were Delta flights. The only reason these four weren't involved is because they either had minor maintenance problems which delayed them at the gate or they were scheduled to depart after the FAA decided to ground all flights. Theirs are the pilots and flight attendants who REALLY dodged the bullet that day, and my faith in a higher power is restored as a result.
I will see United 93 when I get the chance, and I will probably enjoy the
movie for its realness and historical significance, but forgive me if I do
not embrace the Muslim world for the rest of my life. The Islamic world is
no friend of the West, and although we may be able to get along with their
governments in the future, the stated goal of Islam is world conquest
through Jihad and it is the extremist Jihadists, backed and funded by
"friendly" Moslem governments, whom we have to fear the most. We must have a presence in the Middle East, and we must have friends in the Middle East, even if we have to fight wars to get them. Only someone who has dodged a bullet can fully appreciate that fact.
Best to all, Pat Gilmore
P.S. Sorry if this is a repost.
Please Discuss.
For you non airline readers, the "jump seat" is one or more extra seats in
the cockpit (depending on the airplane model) that the Captain may allow
pilots from other airlines to ride on, free, with the proper ID. Prior to
coming to the cockpit to request permission to ride the Passenger Service
Agent has checked the person in the computer for "security reasons."
As you realize when you read this, the terrorists knew how to beat the
system.
On 9/11 some of the terrorists were riding in the cockpit on these very
"jump seat" passes... imagine sitting there making idle talk with the crew
for over an hour, knowing you were going to cut their throats in a few
minutes....
As a Delta B-767 captain myself at the time of the attacks on 9/11 I was in
crew rest in Orlando that morning. I had just turned on the TV in my hotel
room only to see the WTC tower on fire, then saw the second airplane hit the
other tower. My immediate reaction was "Terrorists...we're at war",
followed by the realization that we airline crewmembers had all dodged a
bullet; it could have been any one of us flying those planes. As soon as
the news stations flashed the first pictures of the terrorists I knew just
how close and personal the bullet I dodged was. There, on the screen for
all to see, was a man who had sat in my jumpseat the previous July.
His name was Mohammad Atta, the leader of the terrorist hijackers. Atta had
boarded my flight from Baltimore to Atlanta on July 26, 2001 wearing an
American Airlines first officer uniform. He had the corresponding AA
company ID identifying him as a pilot, not to mention the required FAA pilot
license and medical certificate that he was required to show me as proof of
his aircrew status for access to my jumpseat. An airline pilot riding a
cockpit jumpseat is a long established protocol among the airlines of the
world, a courtesy extended by the management and captains of one airline to
pilots and flight attendants of other airlines in recognition of their
aircrew status. My admission of Mohammad Atta to my cockpit jumpseat that
day was merely a routine exercise of this protocol.
Something seemed a bit different about this jumpseat rider, though, because
in my usual course of conversation with him as we reached cruise altitude he
avoided all my questions about his personal life and focused very intently
upon the cockpit instruments and our operation of the aircraft. I asked him
what he flew at American and he said, "These", but he asked incessant
questions about how we did this or why we did that. I said, "This is a 767.
They all operate the same way." But he said, "No, we operate them
differently at American." That seemed very strange, because I knew better.
I asked him about his background, and he admitted he was from Saudi Arabia.
I asked him when he came over to this country and he said "A couple of years
ago.", to which I asked, "Are you a US citizen?" He said no. I also found
that very strange because I know that in order to have an Airline Transport
Pilot rating, the rating required to be an airline captain, one has to be a
US citizen, and knowing the US airlines and their hiring processes as I do,
I found it hard to believe that American Airlines would hire a non-US
citizen who couldn't upgrade to captain when the time came. He said, "The
rules have changed.", which I also knew to be untrue. Besides, he was just,
shall I say, "Creepy"? My copilot and I were both glad to get rid of this
guy when we got to Atlanta.
There was nothing to indicate, though, that he was anything other than who
or what he said he was, because he had the documentation to prove who he
was. In retrospect, we now know his uniform was stolen and his documents
were forged. Information later came to light as to how this was done.
It seems that Mohammad Atta and his cronies had possibly stolen pilot
uniforms and credentials from hotel rooms during the previous year. We had
many security alerts at the airline to watch out for our personal items in
hotel rooms because these were mysteriously disappearing, but nobody knew
why. Atta and his men used these to make dry runs prior to their actual
hijackings on 9/11. How do I know? I called the FBI as soon as I saw his
face on the TV that day, and the agent on the other end of the line took my
information and told me I'd hear back from them when all the dust settled.
A few weeks later I got a letter from the Bureau saying that my call was one
of at least half a dozen calls that day from other pilots who had the same
experience. Flights were being selected at random to make test runs for
accessing the cockpit. It seems we had all dodged bullets.
Over the years my attitude towards the War Against Terrorism and the wars in
Afghanistan and Iraq have been known to be on the red neck, warmongering,
rah-rah-shoot-em-up side of things. I've been known to lose my patience
with those who say the war in Iraq or anywhere else in the Muslim world is
wrong, or who say we shouldn't become involved in that area of the world for
political correctness reasons. Maybe it's because I dodged the bullet so
closely back in 2001 that I feel this way. I have very little patience for
political rhetoric or debate against this war because for a couple of hours
back in July 2001, when I was engaged in conversation with a major
perpetrator in this war, I came so close to being one of its victims that I
can think in no other terms.
I don't mind admitting that one of the reasons I retired early from Delta
last May, other than to protect my disappearing company retirement, was
because it became harder and harder for me to go to work every day knowing
that the war wasn't being taken seriously by the general public. The worst
offenders were the Liberal detractors to the present administration, and
right or wrong, this administration is at least taking the bull by the horns
and fighting our enemies, which is something concrete that I can appreciate.
Nobody was taking this war seriously, and it seems everyone found fault with
the US government rather than with those who attacked us. I found that
incomprehensible.
I also found myself being scrutinized by TSA screeners more and more every
day when I went to work, and suffered the humiliating indignity of being
identified about half the time for body searches in front of the general
flying public who looked at the entire process as being ludicrous. "They
don't even trust their own pilots!" accompanied by an unbelieving snicker
was the usual response. Here I was, a retired USAF officer who had been
entrusted to fly nuclear weapons around the world, who had been granted a
Top Secret clearance and had been on missions over the course of 21 years in
the military that I still can't talk about without fear of prosecution by
the DoD, who was being scanned by a flunkie TSA screener looking for any
sign of a pen knife or nail file on my person.
It wasn't until six months after my retirement when my wife and I flew to
Key West, FL last November that I was finally able to rid myself of the
visage of Mohammad Atta sitting behind me on my jumpseat, watching my every action in the cockpit and willing to slit my throat at the slightest
provocation. I missed being a headline by a mere 47 days, and could very
well have been among the aircrew casualties on 9/11 had one of my flights on my monthly schedule been a transcontinental flight from Boston or New York to the west coast on the 11th of September. Very few people know that, while only four airliners crashed that day, four more were targeted, and two of them were Delta flights. The only reason these four weren't involved is because they either had minor maintenance problems which delayed them at the gate or they were scheduled to depart after the FAA decided to ground all flights. Theirs are the pilots and flight attendants who REALLY dodged the bullet that day, and my faith in a higher power is restored as a result.
I will see United 93 when I get the chance, and I will probably enjoy the
movie for its realness and historical significance, but forgive me if I do
not embrace the Muslim world for the rest of my life. The Islamic world is
no friend of the West, and although we may be able to get along with their
governments in the future, the stated goal of Islam is world conquest
through Jihad and it is the extremist Jihadists, backed and funded by
"friendly" Moslem governments, whom we have to fear the most. We must have a presence in the Middle East, and we must have friends in the Middle East, even if we have to fight wars to get them. Only someone who has dodged a bullet can fully appreciate that fact.
Best to all, Pat Gilmore
12-25-2007, 07:49 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: FO
Posts: 224
This has been circulating for years...I don't think it was ever substantiated, ie no evidence was ever found that anything like this ever happened.
Honestly, it would have been much easier to have one guy jumpseat, take control of the plane, and no one would no whats going on until its waay too late.
Checko
Honestly, it would have been much easier to have one guy jumpseat, take control of the plane, and no one would no whats going on until its waay too late.
Checko
12-25-2007, 08:07 PM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: Body at sea level; heart at 70,000+
Posts: 1,349
". . . . . had been on missions over the course of 21 years in
the military that I still can't talk about without fear of prosecution by
the DoD, . . . . "
Vivid imagination coupled with paranoia.
the military that I still can't talk about without fear of prosecution by
the DoD, . . . . "
Vivid imagination coupled with paranoia.
12-25-2007, 08:13 PM
#4
China Visa Applicant
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Midfield downwind
Posts: 1,919
Originally Posted by Ftrooppilot
". . . . . had been on missions over the course of 21 years in
the military that I still can't talk about without fear of prosecution by
the DoD, . . . . "
Vivid imagination coupled with paranoia.
the military that I still can't talk about without fear of prosecution by
the DoD, . . . . "
Vivid imagination coupled with paranoia.
12-25-2007, 08:46 PM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: tri current
Posts: 1,485
I also found
that very strange because I know that in order to have an Airline Transport
Pilot rating, the rating required to be an airline captain, one has to be a
US citizen, and knowing the US airlines and their hiring processes as I do,
I found it hard to believe that American Airlines would hire a non-US
citizen who couldn't upgrade to captain when the time came.
that very strange because I know that in order to have an Airline Transport
Pilot rating, the rating required to be an airline captain, one has to be a
US citizen, and knowing the US airlines and their hiring processes as I do,
I found it hard to believe that American Airlines would hire a non-US
citizen who couldn't upgrade to captain when the time came.
Here is a pretty good piece of evidence that this is a sensationalized story. The above statement's by this purported Delta captain are not true. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of non-U.S. citizens working for U.S. carriers who are not U.S. citizens. They all have ATP certificates.
You would have to have a green card to work for a U.S. carrier, but you wouldn't even need that to get an ATP.
Typhoonpilot
12-25-2007, 10:15 PM
#6
AAmerican Way for AA Pay
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: B-737 Pilot
Posts: 1,617
Total, COMPLETE hogwash, urban-legend, internet rumour. Not true.
Atta and others made dry runs as PASSENGERS on transcon flights, but had no idea what jumpseating was.
This is a bold attempt to possible attack pilot jumpseat benefits, as I see it. No terrorist was riding in the cockpit on 9-11, they all had assigned first-class or coach seats near the front. Check the 9-11 Commission reports.
Atta and others made dry runs as PASSENGERS on transcon flights, but had no idea what jumpseating was.
This is a bold attempt to possible attack pilot jumpseat benefits, as I see it. No terrorist was riding in the cockpit on 9-11, they all had assigned first-class or coach seats near the front. Check the 9-11 Commission reports.
12-26-2007, 01:18 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Posts: 5,912
Uh oh... sounds like another TSA conspiracy to justify why they treat airline crews as the “ENEMY”.
12-26-2007, 02:12 AM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: C-172 FO
Posts: 468
I know I'm about to read some BS just by looking at the title...
12-26-2007, 04:22 AM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 744 CA
Posts: 4,772
nothing to discuss......just a load of crap.
12-26-2007, 08:54 AM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 210
True it seems to be BS. But some of these guys actually flew for Saudia...Check up on it!
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
