I'll add this much to the dislikes column:

I never feel like an employee, associate, team member, etc. at my company, merely a contractor.

The company you work for is only as good as the last paycheck that clears the bank. Freight companies included. They'll ditch you in a heartbeat if it saves a nickel.

There are plenty of trips that I say to myself in the middle of the night, "What am I getting out of this?"

I guess this one could be interpreted various ways. When I was in high school/college I worked retail. I WAS an employee, nothing more. I was expected to show up on time, not be late, wear a name tag, not call in sick, do a good job, do OTHER people's jobs for them, etc. You know, just like any other employee at at any other job, just like a pilot job. Granted, I actually reap satisfaction from the job of being a pilot, but some stuff is just the same. One example payroll jacks up your pay check. Calling them and playing phone tag has NOTHING what so ever to do the fact that you are a pilot as well as the most expensive and highest trained employee for that company. You are just another employee.

At least a contractor would be able to negotiate things that may be more in their favor.

Wow, you guys have all given me some great feedback and I have a lot to think about. On one hand, I think I would always regret it if I don't push forward and at least taste airline life for myself. On the other hand, my kids are so young and I don't want to be gone for so much of their youth.
Keep the comments coming; I need wise counsel...

Better to do something and find out you don't like it then spend your life wondering. It's like that woman you saw at a bar...........

As far as being gone from home alot that will depend almost entirely on whether or not you commute.

For an example I work at a regional and have not gotten lower than my 3rd pick bidding and yet I typically leave my house at 4:00am on day one to catch a 6am to commute and then I am gone for day two and three and then I walk in my door on the 4th day anywhere between 4:00pm and 5:00am the next day if I miss all commute and am lucky enough for it to be a night that Fedex is running. For the most part though I typically am gone 4 days and 3 nights of every week.

paying your dues
 

You are gone 4 days and 3 nights commuting? Has your schedule always been like that, or was it much worse when you started? What about being on reserve? Would I not have to start at the bottom of the pecking order again with bidding schedules whenever I earn an upgrade? Even if I get lucky enough to be hired by an airline that stays strong, I am still looking at 4 times (at least) to be the rookie and junior man in scheduling (FO regional, captain regional, FO major, captain major)? Right? Then what happens if my company folds and I need to move elsewhere? I start again at the bottom with scheduling again. I'm not against paying my dues, I just would like to hear from those did it while having young kids at home.
Would any captains for majors care to chime in on what it is like to pay dues so many times?

Yep, you got it right.

I have been a junior FO, then moved up to to the number 2 FO. Then went to upgrade, got downgraded back to the number 2 FO for two years. Got furloughed, went back to being a junior FO, moved up to about the top 10% of base/seat seniority, then upgraded to guess what? A junior CA at the bottom of the base/seat list. Now, getting downgraded AGAIN. The upside? I STILL have a job and am bidding now in about the top 8% for seat/base as FO. The downside, the career stagnation/regression.

As far as the schedule goes, that can vary drastically. But a 4 on 3 off is very typical, especially if you commute. It keeps commuting to 4 times a month, and if you can work it out, no crashpad/hotel. When I commuted to the east coast, it was pretty much standard that NOTHING was front end commutable. Meaning I ALWAYS had to go in the night before, but could always get home on the last day. Usually meant being home about 2 1/2 days a week, 3 nights in my own bed.

If you live in base, you QOL is way better. The reason I never moved to base was I've had 5 of them close on me. Not one of them lasted more than two years.

YMMV

Oh yeah, another thing I dislike about the job;

WAITING OF FREAKING HOTEL VANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OK, I misunderstood and thought you were saying there was an large impending reduction in military manned aviation which would put a bunch of pilots on the street, that was unkown to the rest of us.

Civilians will always have to compete with military pilots, but there's no reason to think the current demographics are going to change in the near future (prior to 2025).

These sentiments are not uncommon, but it's useful to understand WHY things are the way they are....

The FAA, the company, and other organizations are concerned with CYA in the event of an accident. Our regs, rules, and procedures are designed to help steer us away from previously identified pitfalls, but more importantly, they are designed to protect those above us in the event of investigations or lawsuits. This protection takes the form of trying to account for every known or conceiveable thing which could go wrong, and directing us to avoid it.

Regulators and managers can always think up something new to require of us, but they essentially never REMOVE any old requirements. They are also not real good about streamlining convoluted documents which have grown over time with input from many different folks. There is no personal incentive to edit/remove existing requirements, so nobody bothers.

I fully agree that our rules are usually excessively cumbersome and confusing...there are often many possible interpretations of a given requirement, and the only correct answer is what the particular fed in your face happens to think.

About the only thing we can do is realize that the best pilots in the world could get in regulatory trouble on a bad day and just accept that as a risk of doing business. Avoid the obvious gotchas, fly safe, and do your best. I do believe that good piloting and judgement can avoid accidents in 121 about 100% of the time (not counting mechanical failures)...121 has enough layers of redundancy that we should be able to avoid peeling the whole onion.

HA! Come dispatch and sit in a room with them for 10 hours a day. Your two minute phone call will seem like the best part of your day.

I won't deny there's a lot of nerve grating stupid little things about being a pilot for living. In the last 5 pages people have probably covered most of the the top 10% of that list, I'm sure there's plenty more. I took two years off from this industry after my last regional beat my love of flying out me. During that two years I learned how much I disliked working for a living. To me, flying isn't work, it's something I enjoy tremendously. The fact that I've tricked someone into paying me to do it is a bonus, and lends creibility to my argument that "this is my job" when I have to deal with a DDPR (dreaded domestic progress report) while on the road. I'm lucky because I enjoy what I do. In my mind, what I do is just plain cool and that makes it worthwhile to me.

Hey just look at the software aisle next time you're in wally world- there's only a few careers that people pay money to pretend to have. Pilot, Military, and of course CIA mutant zombie slayer!!! If this is where your heart is, I say go for it.

And this, my friends, is why pilots will make less and less. We're so lucky they pay us to do this.

To me, this is probably one of the strongest arguments against getting involved with airline flying. Being away from home so much kills me (especially right now, because I'm leaving home for 5 days at a time to sit reserve) and I don't even have kids. But my wife and I are planning to have children within the next few years, so what then? Maybe I'll have a better seniority number and a better schedule. But I still won't make enough money to support a family until I upgrade.... and then QOL goes back down to where I am today, unless I wait it out as an FO for a number of years.... making an FO's income all that time.

But let's just pretend for a moment that being away from home didn't matter so much. These are some other questions I would ask myself:

Am I planning to put my children through college? Are those educations already funded? (You are not likely to make enough money to contribute to this for many years. If you have outside sources of income, or are financially independent, perhaps you don't need to worry about this as much.)

Does my wife make enough money to support our household spending? If she's working (or has to take a job at some point), who will take care of the kids? (Especially if you're only home 12 days per month.)

Is my retirement plan sufficiently funded to keep me on par with my goals? (You are not likely to be capable of making substantial contributions for many years. If you have outside sources of income, or are financially independent, perhaps you don't need to worry about this as much.)

My answers to these questions (and other like questions) have provoked my interest in closing the Aviation Career chapter of my life.

If you decide to "take the plunge" (double entendre intended), probably the single thing you can do to improve your quality of life substantially is live in base. Commuting is no fun. (Especially, as I mentioned above, when you are commuting to reserve.) When you live in base, you can be at home with the family on reserve. In addition, you will be in a better position to pick up premium pay trips which can improve your earning potential. Most of the time, I've found that difficult or impossible as a commuter.

Other "wannabee" careers
 

I can think of other career fields where many people will accept almost any standard of living just to "be there" and hope for the big break. One is show business -- that's why Actors Equity and the SAG were formed. Other than enforcing a modest minimum pay scale, I don't know how effective they have been for the average actor. Another is professional sports, but their healthy minimum pay scales don't apply to minor-league players, most of whom need second jobs. Of course, neither of these career fields require spending thousands of dollars or years of military service for training, and these workers are not responsible for the safety of human lives.

Sidebar / Movie reference:

I thought is was the Film Actors Guild. ;)

The time away from home is a real deal breaker. Just think of all the great moments with your family that you will miss. Being junior on the seniority list with no vacation for the first few years will be tough. You need to have a strong spouse who has lots of extra time and money. ADD to the list - Very forgiving and understanding.

If you work and live in the same place life will be much better. Think of all the extra time you are away from commuting. Even if you only spend 5hrs on either side of the trip getting home it adds up at four trips a month. 40hrs(1.6 days) a month x 12= 19.2 days. That's being conservative for a normal commute. I would say that you would spend an extra month away from home commuting. Granted some times you run over to the plane after your last leg and get right on. But other times you miss the last flight out, get bumped on the first three flights in the morning just as snow storm hits. All this while your wife is calling telling you that a kid just went to the hospital and the toilet is overflowing. That is not worth the 20k you will make that year.

Is your life really worth that little? Sorry bad rant here but I hate hearing how people think that this commuting business is so easy. Without a family and responsibilities it could be a lot more fun.

Also one more thing I've noticed. The "majors that people think their going to after that 1000pic are shrinking. If things continue the majors will only be flying the profitable international routes and the domestic flying will all be contract(regional airlines).

Great point! Yes we love it, but a professional pilot really does earn more than they actually get paid. While this is great fun, it takes a lot of hard work to get there and maintain it. Pilots should be paid accordingly!

I love my job because:

even from 17,000 (the mighty Saab has a hard time getting above there when it's got pax) the view is pretty spectacular

no matter how many times you do the exact same flight, it's ALWAYS different

when the weather gets socked in, it brings in challenging situations that make you stay on your toes (as I like to call it "1.5 hours of boredom followed by 5 minutes of sheer terror")

talking sh*t and making jokes with the captain about random stuff and having "that's what she said comments" to see who can come up with the most creative ones ... and getting paid to do it!

doing what I love and getting paid for it ... enough said :)

I like my job because....

1. See all of the above by CAPTAIN152

2. Being part of the "system" and the complete satisfaction of a job well done after every flight

3. Jumpseat / non-rev benefits

4. I'm losing weight! (Colgan diet plan)


I dislike my job because....

1. The pay is ridiculously low

2. I have to wear a hat that never seems to fit my head and looks dorky

3. Captains that moan and whine about everything (the majority are great though)

4. Delays by certain rampers or other incompetent people that could be completely avoided

Position: Regional FO
Seniority: 72nd percentile in company, 50th percentile in seat, 40th percentile in base in seat

Pros
- I really don't work that hard
- I typically have 15 days off per month; at home
- I like not having a boss (in the classic sense) looking over my shoulder
- I live within 1 hour drive of my base
- PBS works well for me, I typically get the sked. I want
- I just like flying airplanes; kinda wish I didn't, but I do
- Upgrade in many years and make around reasonable coin
- I've traveled to more places than all my non-aviation friends combined
- I've met some great people
- Incredible views from the office
- River Visual 19

Cons
- Gonna be making $40k as an F/O for the foreseeable future
- Some captains are anal retentive A-holes (but I avoid most though PBS)
- Haven't found a girl that likes the pilot lifestyle too much
- Make one mistake and your career could be over
- Make one mistake and lots of people die
- Possibility of losing your medical and consequently ending your career
- Dirty hotels (most are alright though; Marriot, Hilton, Hampton, Sheraton, Crowne Plaza)
- General industry instability
- Almost all the F/A in my base are sky hags or f...
- The base near my home is super senior and I will not likely hold a CA slot there for 15+ years
- US Airways has the worst product in the industry and I am unfortunately part of that system

All in all, for the time being I am relatively happy. I have a B.S. degree in Finance and a
while ago I was considering a job outside aviation, but ultimately decided against it.

Yeah ... I forgot to add that part in about the ridiculously low pay ... and that God forsaken hat ... I swear when I upgrade I'm going to burn that thing :D

The jumpseating privilege is amazing ... without it I'm really not sure how I would be able to do this job since my girlfriend is in OK and I live in Dallas, and am based in IAH ... it gets rough sometimes, lol

Not true. I fly Grand Canyon Tours. The weather is always clear and there are always a bunch of people who can't understand English in the back.

So for those who have been in the classic "Office job" to those who fly for a regional, would you say the airline path was worth it despite all the negatives? I just got my private cert. and am working on the rest of my ratings and have loved it so far. But, I am seriously considering backing out on this whole airline thing hearing all the news about the economy, gas prices, QOL for regional FO's, etc.

I don't want to end up being miserable at a regional with tens of thousands of dollars in debt. But, I certainly don't want to end up like Peter Gibbons in Office Space.

Just because you don't become an airline pilot doesn't mean you have to become a Peter Gibbons or Michael Bolton. There are tons of non-cubicle careers out there, are you kidding me?!

I have to admit though, if I had never become a professional pilot, I think I would've always had that longing feeling every time I got on an airliner. It's just unfortunate that the industry is so terrible. I was jumpseating on DAL mainline last week, the captain told me, "the job is great, but the industry sucks. after 20 years, it's the same old BS."

I guess i love all the things that everyone else does. My one gripe is mainly with myself. I wish i'd traveled more. Was an odd predicament, i was an FO, had a "decent" amount of time off (enough to go places) but no $$, then on top of that, i always pictured myself stuck in some foreign country, without the ability to get back, and unsure how to "do it". I upgraded, made the $$ that would be necessary to go somewhere, but no longer had all that free time. Now, i'm finally downgraded, have the free time again, but once again, no money....trying to work this out though.

About a month ago, i did an interview that would get me out of the industry. I'm in the "wait to hear" category (which is where everyone else is also), so, now, i'm thinking my days at the airlines MIGHT be numbered, and if so, i don't want to make the same mistake twice, so...the wifey and I are going traveling.

So the likes:

Jumpseating
Travel Perks
Flying my little not-shiny jet
Beautiful BTV or ROA
Time at home

Dislikes:

Industry Instability
Time away from home
Lousy FO pay, marginally better CA pay
Crappy Hotels
Crew Scheduling (only a problem on reserve)
Being downgraded

The industry instability is at the top of the list because it causes so many other problems. The job i'm looking at doing is a govt. gig in the defense world and as such has a pretty stable outlook. The pay is good, and you're home every night, and unlike with the regionals, when i bought my home i wasn't thinking "what can i afford" i was thinking "what can i afford on an FO salary in case i get downgraded or a furlough comes up, or i MAKE IT to a major, and make 30k a year for a year". I've always been one to try and save $ when i can, but i didn't want to be the guy who needed to save 40-50k so he could survive 1st year major pay all over again. Neway, to each his own, gotta love flying my plane though...or, the other guys' plane i guess.

Hey.........Peter Gibbons in Office Space was banging Jennifer Aniston.

Well, after all of the great feedback from you guys, I am convinced that I need to do two things for my own well-being and sanity:

1. Finish my "agreement" to stay on as an instructor until March. I'll be lucky if the market improves even by then.
2. Finish my MBA. Everyone needs a "Plan B".
3. Get a real flying job when the market turns around. Despite all of the negatives, if I don't ever do it, I know I will always have that pit in my stomach when I listen to that Gulfstream thunder off toward a corner of the world that I haven't seen yet...
When I was working on BAI with another student in the Duchess yesterday I looked out the window and remembered why I am doing this - I LOVE FLYING!!

Thanks guys.

I can't offer much that hasn't already been said. On the airline level the job has been mostly guttted of anything resembling a job worth having. Personally I think you are totally nuts to head down the pilot road but in the end, seems like you need to see if for yourself so if you must, here is my take.

I have had some great jobs and loads of fun on the journey towards my current major airline job. Flying in many corners of the world in little airplanes, the classic Twin Beech, a loud gas guzzling jurasic jet, flying for a celebrity, being a crop duster, flying for a regional in the most amazing part of the country, living and flying overseas. Now I work for a major and although I don't quite hate it, it is definitely the worst flying job I've had.
Point is, find what works for you and don't get too wrapped up in looking to the next big gig. Only work for companies with values you share (ie, treating people well, common sense, fair pay, adventure, respect, planning for the future) and don't get swept up with the shiney jet thing and you have a better chance of finding your zen.

I read this little story once and I'll paraphrase....
Guy is flying out of a grass strip in his Cub. It's hot, sweaty, loud, he sees a 737 contrail overhead...thinks to himself, "that has got to be the job there, jet engines, air conditioning, flight attendants, a real sweet ride. I can't wait to fly a jet.

The 737 is encountering moderate turbulence and the pilots are busy reading their contract to determine the legality of flying this, the 3rd long day in as many, the passengers are vomitting and the FA's refuse to feed them. The CA looks out the window and see's the Concorde gliding overhead and says, now that's what we need to be doing, 3 hours to LHR, above the weather at Mach 2. What a sweet ride.

The radiation detector is malfunctioning and the temperature of the wing is about to exceed limits. It's the 5th atlantic crossing in as many days for the crew and they.....the CA looks out the window and sees the space shuttle quietly gliding overhead. He says to the crew, now that is the job to have....

The astronauts are looking out the window with a telescope at the earth passing below and one sees a Piper Cub landing on a grass strip. Says to the mission commander, man, remember when we just flew a cub around our back yard.....

Yes, I will always love general aviation. As another pilot on this forum said, I really enjoy pointing an aircraft where I want it to go, not just where my employer wants me to go.
I am old enough to know that the grass is usually not greener on the other side of the fence. But I am still curious. I still want to do it. I have dreamed of flying for the airlines since I was 8 years old. I'm about to turn 34. If I don't do it soon, I know I will regret it. I can always go back to management. It's not so easy to get "back into" the airlines.
Thanks for the great post!

How about this. We are the same age so you can have my seat for one year. You can drive a boeing around and test the waters and I'll take your job and see what it's like to be home every night. Deal??

Sounds like fun. Maybe we would both find out that there are things about both that we like and dislike!

From experience, I can say this: it might not be as easy as you think to get back into management after you've been "living the dream" for a few years.

For those that earn their way to an enjoyable flying job, I'm sure it would be very difficult to go back to a management job. What I meant is that it is easier for someone who is unemployed but has management experience to get a management job than for an experienced unemployed pilot to find a flying job. Managers can switch companies and GAIN seniority, better pay, and better benefits instead of losing them...

That is not what I meant.

That is what I meant. I suggest you talk to people who have attempted to "reverse" their career change to see just how "easy" it was. Maybe your specific industry or professional relationships will make it a piece of cake to jump right back in where you left. But I somehow doubt it will be that easy after you've been away for a few years.

Southbound,
After 20 years in this crazy industry, and about to start over if I choose to or I am able, that is by far the best post I have read.

To all the people that say get a different job in a better industry and just fly for fun:

If you did that, your net pay/savings would be less than your first years as a regional F/O. To fly a plane that isn't too much a risk to your life for an hour will cost you about 135 - 145 dollars. Forget about ownership, Planes cost wayyy too much to buy let alone park/maintain/FUEL... Like everything else in today’s bushed up economy, it's out of reach unless you were born with a trust fund, or your Daddy is a CEO.

650 bux a month even if you rented and only flew for 1 hour a week! And it's only gonna get more expensive.


So if you are middle class (aka poor) and you want or like to fly, doing it for a living is pretty much the only option these days.

I'd say get the ratings on your own if you don't already have them(pay as you go, no god damn loans), you already have a degree (I hear this doesn't matter much anymore)... I'd go try it out for a few years and see if you like it. You can always get another job somewhere else if you don't like it. Life is too short to not try as much as you can. It can't be much worse than wasting away and getting fat under flourescent lights with no windows all while kissing the right peoples asses / appeasing the powers that were born into their fortune.

IMO our whole career structure is a scam. Ever since the average person started going to college, everyone is sort of a PFJ (If they had to pay for college that is...).

Johnson48. Thanks....I think. How are you starting over??

Thanks for all the advice guys. I will probably continue to instruct until the end of March. Right now, I have almost 950 tt with almost 200 multi. If I stick it out until March, I should have 1300-1500 tt with 500-600 multi (all PIC).

If I want a corporate or cargo job after that (so I won't be as poor), would I be able to enter a regional as a DE captain after gaining 500-1000 turbine PIC time? Or is my only route through the FO side of the regionals?

In the past no good regional has hired direct entry captains. With 500-1000 TPIC you would be qualified to work at many majors if they are hiring at that time.