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-   -   Why do you like or dislike your job? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/hangar-talk/31653-why-do-you-like-dislike-your-job.html)

proskuneho 09-27-2008 05:29 PM

Why do you like or dislike your job?
 
Hello all. I am a career changer. After a decade in management, the flying bug is really getting me. I am well aware of the ups and downs of the industry. I also understand the dues that the average pilot pays to earn the "dream job". I have already taken a huge pay cut to become a CFI/CFII/MEI, and anticipate another drastic cut whenever the regionals are hiring non-furloughed pilots again! Considering the fact that so many people leave other careers to chase the dream to fly, it must be worth the sacrifices!
Or is it? You are all aware of the stereotype of the whiny pilot, but I know that many pilots have valid reasons to complain. I am curious what many of you think, especially if you left a better paying (and more stable career) to do this.
Why do you like your job? :)
If you are not happy, why?:rolleyes:
My opinion? I have got my first pilot certificate in 1996, and I just now have over 900 hrs with 155 multi. You don't fly much when you manage the people that are flying. For me, flying is amazing. There is awesome satisfaction in a nice instrument approach that leads to a greased landing. There is so much beauty, freedom, and excitement. What better office?

el jefe 09-27-2008 06:05 PM

I know I love to shoot a short approach, vectored in high and fast, with a full boat and a nasty crosswind. That's the 5 minutes of each day that gets my heart going.

Or fly a leg through an East Coast storm, shoot a tricky ILS to minimums, and have 75% of the passengers drop off a used air-sickness bag with the flight attendant.

All the other tedious B.S. that we have to deal with (ground stops, overnights, long periods away from home, etc) is worth it when you finally get to fly the plane like its your first flight in a C152.

withthatsaid182 09-27-2008 06:22 PM

I dislike my job because:

I'm on the low end of the seniority list i.e. the last guy.

Reserve is no fun.

You are always in a hotel during those times you really need to be home.

I, along with everyone around me try to do an honest to goodness helluva job and still get paid poorly.

Taking the bus sucks.

I have to set my alarm for 0330 a lot these days.

I like my job because:

I sit on the couch a lot and then often go fly around.

At 37,000 feet I can see a load of cool looking constellations.

There's nothing like cruising around drinking coffee and seeing those constellations with your feet up and seat back.

Flying through the weather and not worrying about a your one and only engine failing, or getting too much ice, or not being able to get above/around weather.

I meet a lot of interesting people with some interesting stories.

Instead of calling them thrust reversers I call them "Buckets".

It's as close as I am going to get to being a pirate.

I get a paycheck to do it all.

proskuneho 09-27-2008 06:42 PM

Thanks for the great responses guys. So overall, do you think it is worth the sacrifices?

ExperimentalAB 09-27-2008 06:47 PM

Worth the sacrifices? Tough call - for some maybe, for others maybe not...I ::think:: I'm of the former?

I can't tell you how satisfying my job is on a good day. That I was born for it doesn't come close to cutting it...Just know that at times you'll be flying with guys that are flying for a completely different reason - they don't love it like you do...A lot of guys I flew with while in ORD didn't even like driving a car. In my personal opinion, if you don't like operating ground machinery, you have no business in the front end of a 500 knot flying machine...Not only is that a tough pill to swallow, but they will try and bring you down (not intentionally, of course, but will nonetheless).

rickair7777 09-27-2008 07:02 PM


Originally Posted by proskuneho (Post 469657)
Thanks for the great responses guys. So overall, do you think it is worth the sacrifices?


ExperimentalAB has a point...if you don't like machinery, you're not going to dig it in the long run. But with your flight experience, you should probably know by now.

From a career-changer perspective, it will only be worth it at your age if you made good use of your decade in business. You will want the house paid for, retirement funded, cash for training, plus a survival fund to make ends meet until you are a regional CA. Or have an understanding spouse with a high-paying, portable job (doctor, nurse, etc).

You will have to be prepared to move to your job location, or be VERY selective about working only for airline(s) which junior domiciles which are commutable from your home.

Also, with the long-term uncertainty in oil, be prepared for the possibility that your career will stagnate very early on...most of the economy can adapt to alternative energy, but it will not be so easy for passenger airlines.

Boomer 09-27-2008 07:29 PM


Originally Posted by proskuneho (Post 469606)
If you are not happy, why?:rolleyes:

I'm also a career changer, and all the positives you mention are real... for a time. Your love of aviation will determine if, and how long, that flame will continue to burn. Mine is still burning (most days) after 8 years.

Four downsides you already know about, but are HUGE in my opinion...

1) New faces every day...

Unless your outfit has a small fleet or lots of little bases, you may not fly with the same crew for a year or more. After years in an office where you know everyone and their families, personal histories, quirks, etc., it gets to be a real pain to have to introduce yourself to another new Captain every few legs.

In other words... this complete stranger is your best friend for the next four days, and good luck remembering his name when you see him next week.


2) Checkrides, medicals, furloughs, bankruptcies, and everything you do is on tape (and the FAA's always listening...)

There are lots of things that will end your airline career faster than you can say "What do you mean I was swerving, officer?" Some are under your control; some are totally beyond your control, such as diabetes, a firecracker in the eye, or the price of Jet-A. You've heard the stories. Try saying that about an office job- Even a bad surgeon can kill a few people and not have to go back to kindergarten.


3) Being away...

If you have a family, your kid will break a leg or have a heart broken when you're in the middle of a trip. Your wife will open that credit card or insurance bill and totally freak out on the phone with you... when you're on a trip. The roof will leak and the fridge will explode... when you're on a trip. Christmas, Halloween, parades, scouts, sports, teacher meetings, reunions, church, lost teeth, birthdays, proms, graduations, weddings... some of them you'll get to go. Most, you will miss. Have I mentioned that you'll spend 150-200 nights a year away from your wife?

Someday, when you're finally senior enough at a regional to get weekends off, will you want to start over at a major and give up holidays for another 10 years, or make due with the $80,000 max pay as your career regional?

If you don't have a family, are you planning on starting one before you turn 65?


4) Money

You have to look at worst case, and your worst case may not be bad enough. In 1999 I looked at DAL, UAL, AA, etc. payscales and figured even if it took me a decade to get there I'd come out way ahead. My worst case was way off - I didn't account for them all taking a 50% hit in wages and retirement. I'm currently down about $620,000 compared to my last career and if anybody shares that number with my wife I'll deny it.

If you can't get by on $40,000 for the next 8 years, forget it. "Picking" the right regional is like picking the right stock fund and putting your entire 401k into it. Today's hot regional is tomorrow's dead end career. An airline with 2-year upgrades today will not be in the same situation two years from now, and no amount of personal effort will get you to the left seat if you pick the wrong airline and they start parking airplanes.

So, if you find yourself saying "I can survive on FO wages for about three years if I tap my retirement or put off having kids" then ask yourself what's the plan if you're still an FO going into year 4, or 5, or 6...

If you're like me you'll love aviation too much to leave, so you'll just hang out on webboards complaining about the Mesa scumbags that took your airplanes and how crummy it is to be a career regional FO. But it beats working for a living in many ways. You are right, you can't beat the view from our office window.


So to sum up, this industry has been in the toilet since a week after I got here (literally - I earned my Commercial Multi on 9/04/01), and I regret changing careers less than half the time. Your results may vary. Good luck with the Mesaba thing - they strike me as a good outfit to be with.

dojetdriver 09-27-2008 07:42 PM


Originally Posted by Boomer (Post 469684)
I'm also a career changer, and all the positives you mention are real... for a time. Your love of aviation will determine if, and how long, that flame will continue to burn. Mine is still burning (most days) after 8 years.

Four downsides you already know about, but are HUGE in my opinion...

1) New faces every day...

Unless your outfit has a small fleet or lots of little bases, you may not fly with the same crew for a year or more. After years in an office where you know everyone and their families, personal histories, quirks, etc., it gets to be a real pain to have to introduce yourself to another new Captain every few legs.

In other words... this complete stranger is your best friend for the next four days, and good luck remembering his name when you see him next week.


2) Checkrides, medicals, furloughs, bankruptcies, and everything you do is on tape (and the FAA's always listening...)

There are lots of things that will end your airline career faster than you can say "What do you mean I was swerving, officer?" Some are under your control; some are totally beyond your control, such as diabetes, a firecracker in the eye, or the price of Jet-A. You've heard the stories. Try saying that about an office job- Even a bad surgeon can kill a few people and not have to go back to kindergarten.


3) Being away...

If you have a family, your kid will break a leg or have a heart broken when you're in the middle of a trip. Your wife will open that credit card or insurance bill and totally freak out on the phone with you... when you're on a trip. The roof will leak and the fridge will explode... when you're on a trip. Christmas, Halloween, parades, scouts, sports, teacher meetings, reunions, church, lost teeth, birthdays, proms, graduations, weddings... some of them you'll get to go. Most, you will miss. Have I mentioned that you'll spend 150-200 nights a year away from your wife?

Someday, when you're finally senior enough at a regional to get weekends off, will you want to start over at a major and give up holidays for another 10 years, or make due with the $80,000 max pay as your career regional?

If you don't have a family, are you planning on starting one before you turn 65?


4) Money

You have to look at worst case, and your worst case may not be bad enough. In 1999 I looked at DAL, UAL, AA, etc. payscales and figured even if it took me a decade to get there I'd come out way ahead. My worst case was way off - I didn't account for them all taking a 50% hit in wages and retirement. I'm currently down about $620,000 compared to my last career and if anybody shares that number with my wife I'll deny it.

If you can't get by on $40,000 for the next 8 years, forget it. "Picking" the right regional is like picking the right stock fund and putting your entire 401k into it. Today's hot regional is tomorrow's dead end career. An airline with 2-year upgrades today will not be in the same situation two years from now, and no amount of personal effort will get you to the left seat if you pick the wrong airline and they start parking airplanes.

So, if you find yourself saying "I can survive on FO wages for about three years if I tap my retirement or put off having kids" then ask yourself what's the plan if you're still an FO going into year 4, or 5, or 6...

If you're like me you'll love aviation too much to leave, so you'll just hang out on webboards complaining about the Mesa scumbags that took your airplanes and how crummy it is to be a career regional FO. But it beats working for a living in many ways. You are right, you can't beat the view from our office window.


So to sum up, this industry has been in the toilet since a week after I got here (literally - I earned my Commercial Multi on 9/04/01), and I regret changing careers less than half the time. Your results may vary. Good luck with the Mesaba thing - they strike me as a good outfit to be with.

Excellent post. I like how you emphasized the aspects of the regionals. Because with the way this industry is going, guys that are just getting into it will more than likely be spending A LOT of time there.

proskuneho 09-27-2008 07:54 PM


Originally Posted by dojetdriver (Post 469691)
Excellent post. I like how you emphasized the aspects of the regionals. Because with the way this industry is going, guys that are just getting into it will more than likely be spending A LOT of time there.

Thanks for all the feedback guys. Keep it coming.

This will surely sound like a dumb question and common knowledge to many of you, but aren't the major airlines facing a HUGE (much larger than normal) number of retirements over the next decade? Will that not cause upward mobility in the regionals also?

kalyx522 09-27-2008 07:57 PM

I like my job because
1. It's fun... most especially the landing. That never gets old!
2. Airplanes are cool.
3. It's exciting and unpredictable at times. Most pilots hate LGA, but I love most everything about airports like that, even the 3 hr taxi (since I'm getting paid.) I love the tight approaches they have you do sometimes, and even the few times I've had to go around... I would never admit it to the captain who needs to fill out the paperwork afterwards, but secretly I revel in moments like that.
4. The job provides me a sense of pride from the fact that I can fly an airplane.
6. Jumpseating privilege is awesome.

I dislike my job because
1. I don't think I get paid enough for what I do. In fact, I think we're grossly undercompensated, EVEN considering the fact that it's a fun job. The lack of fair pay makes me feel mistreated and unappreciated as an employee, which in turn makes me hate my job.
2. As long as crap doesn't hit the fan (which I hope it doesn't), the job itself is very routine, which often makes it boring although this is sometimes a very nice thing since you can just sit on your butt and read magazines (and I realize this is a runon sentence)... but at the same time, it's not very fulfilling like it would be for a police officer, doctor, etc. who make the world a better place. All you do is tranport people from one place to another, and as long as you do your job right, you made no difference. I know some people don't care about that, but personally, I wish my job involved making a difference in someone's life, even in a small way.
3. Often getting treated like utter crap from the company, esp. crew schedulers.
4. Unpredictable and unstable nature of the career.
5. Not being able to come home every night. I imagine this will only get harder as I get older and have a family.
6. The everyday BS like waiting several hours for a hotel room, not getting proper pay credit, etc.

I don't know if the regional forum is the best place to ask the pilots if the sacrifices are worth it... most of us have started to pay the dues at regionals not too long ago, hoping to get on with majors or fractionals one day... if that happens for me, obviously this will all be totally worth it to me (because I imagine it will be a lot better once I get to a major, and I also know I could end up being wrong about this). But until then, unless somone's goal is to stay at a regional forever, how can they answer your question?


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