The Wrestler
04-23-2009 | 01:19 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 548
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From: Retired 767 Captain
This guy is unbelievable...he hates the profession, but hangs out here ( for years) and gripes about it. Pick any topic...any...and he`ll try and turn it into a rant about a crappy aviation career.....I had a great career...enjoyed every minute of it (check rides and ground school excluded)...my son followed me into aviation..is a captain at a major and loves his job also. The only people that I know are airline pilots, both active and retired...they all love their jobs...must be sad to be this guy...his only happiness is trying to rain on everyone`s parade.
04-23-2009 | 01:45 PM
#22
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Joined: Feb 2006
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Aviation gave me much more than I ever thought it would. I started out as a USMC helo pilot, beefed up my fixed wing time through the CFI route and stepped up to flying for a commuter. Flying a Dash8 was my goal but will hang it up in the left seat of 767 in a company that may or may not survive. Irregardless, it was an E Ticket ride.
I've never envied the suits and their earthbound jobs.
I've never envied the suits and their earthbound jobs.
04-23-2009 | 02:14 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 409
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From: Student Pilot
Jay Dee,
Aviation might be what you want out of a career but what do you want out of life? My point is that aviation is increasingly making it harder to accommodate the rest of what most people consider as a full and normal life. It takes certain elements to build a happy life. Most people probably have a spouse and children in their future. A family needs stability, financial security and quality time at home. The demands of an aviation career are making it exceedingly difficult to meet the lifestyle needs of the average family.
I understand that not every college student is in financial debt as a result of their education and training. However, my main point is that they all have incurred high opportunity costs by virtue of a wasted educational opportunity in choosing an aviation degree. It is a debt against your future prospects in life. Not everyone goes to college to develop a career but at some point it is a good idea to think about your future. I heard on the radio the other day that the University of Idaho is now offering a major in "Fly Fishing Guide". I am sure that there is a kid who it trying to convince his parents that it is what he is interested in and wants to do.
You may be happy with your profession now, but your needs and perspective will change as you get older. I am happy with my new life. Aviation was supposed to help me to reach my dreams. Instead it was an obstacle. As far as I am concerned my entire aviation career was a waste. I went into it with a specific purpose and that was to make a better life for myself. All my classmates had the same goals. To that end aviation was a complete failure. It did not provide a better income or lifestyle and as we go into the future I can not see much of a hope of things getting any better.
People need to know what they are getting into. I hope that you have a plan "B".
Skyhigh
Aviation might be what you want out of a career but what do you want out of life? My point is that aviation is increasingly making it harder to accommodate the rest of what most people consider as a full and normal life. It takes certain elements to build a happy life. Most people probably have a spouse and children in their future. A family needs stability, financial security and quality time at home. The demands of an aviation career are making it exceedingly difficult to meet the lifestyle needs of the average family.
I understand that not every college student is in financial debt as a result of their education and training. However, my main point is that they all have incurred high opportunity costs by virtue of a wasted educational opportunity in choosing an aviation degree. It is a debt against your future prospects in life. Not everyone goes to college to develop a career but at some point it is a good idea to think about your future. I heard on the radio the other day that the University of Idaho is now offering a major in "Fly Fishing Guide". I am sure that there is a kid who it trying to convince his parents that it is what he is interested in and wants to do.
You may be happy with your profession now, but your needs and perspective will change as you get older. I am happy with my new life. Aviation was supposed to help me to reach my dreams. Instead it was an obstacle. As far as I am concerned my entire aviation career was a waste. I went into it with a specific purpose and that was to make a better life for myself. All my classmates had the same goals. To that end aviation was a complete failure. It did not provide a better income or lifestyle and as we go into the future I can not see much of a hope of things getting any better.
People need to know what they are getting into. I hope that you have a plan "B".
Skyhigh
I think expectations are the problem. Anyone going into Aviation, should have an expectation set, not only with themselves, but with their respective families. The pilot, whether it be the Male or Female of the family, will miss Holidays, Weddings, Birthdays, School Plays, etc etc etc. It is no different for me, I routinely spend 15-20 months away from home. So for me, being away, is just a side effect of my job... My current job btw, is US Army, 101st Airborne, 1-502nd Air Assault. BLACK HEARTS BABY!
So if the individual sets up the proper expectations then they set themselves up for success. Nothing worth having is free... Everything worth having, is worth working for.
I understand you do not want everyone to make the same mistakes you did, but you have to admit not everything is bad...
I will write more when i get the chance, i have a 19:00 showing on base, hooray fory late duty!
04-23-2009 | 04:21 PM
#24
Thread Starter
Self Employed.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,120
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From: Corporate Pilot
Expectations
JayDee,
The thing about expectations is that the situation changes over time. I had expectations too and they were accurate for the time period that they were made. The problem is that over the last 20 years things in aviation have changed a lot and not for the better.
You will change as well. My guess is that you are a younger person. You will be making decisions that will effect you for the rest of your life. An older version of yourself does not want to get up at 3:00AM and would enjoy a little financial security. I hope you keep that in mind.
My point is that setting expectations and making plans in regards to aviation is not a strong defense against the future. As your expectations are lower than mine the next generations will be less than yours. You have already mentioned that you recognize that things are getting worse in aviation. I hope you have a back up plan.
Skyhigh
The thing about expectations is that the situation changes over time. I had expectations too and they were accurate for the time period that they were made. The problem is that over the last 20 years things in aviation have changed a lot and not for the better.
You will change as well. My guess is that you are a younger person. You will be making decisions that will effect you for the rest of your life. An older version of yourself does not want to get up at 3:00AM and would enjoy a little financial security. I hope you keep that in mind.
My point is that setting expectations and making plans in regards to aviation is not a strong defense against the future. As your expectations are lower than mine the next generations will be less than yours. You have already mentioned that you recognize that things are getting worse in aviation. I hope you have a back up plan.
Skyhigh
04-23-2009 | 04:26 PM
#25
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Self Employed.
Joined: May 2005
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From: Corporate Pilot
Nepotism
This guy is unbelievable...he hates the profession, but hangs out here ( for years) and gripes about it. Pick any topic...any...and he`ll try and turn it into a rant about a crappy aviation career.....I had a great career...enjoyed every minute of it (check rides and ground school excluded)...my son followed me into aviation..is a captain at a major and loves his job also. The only people that I know are airline pilots, both active and retired...they all love their jobs...must be sad to be this guy...his only happiness is trying to rain on everyone`s parade.
My point is that prospects for the future of our profession are not all that great. You and your son did well but how does that relate to pilots who are starting out today?
Skyhigh
04-23-2009 | 05:03 PM
#26
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Self Employed.
Joined: May 2005
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From: Corporate Pilot
Alaska
Someone mentioned that "if I was having fun at my flying jobs in Alaska then why didn't I stay there"?
I have had a lot of fun jobs in aviation however the lifestyle that comes with most of the funner jobs is unsustainable. Once I got my flight time I moved on to the next rung on the ladder. My goals were finite and they did not include living in a shack in the middle of nowhere Alaska for the rest of my life. It was fun but I got out of there as fast as I could. The guys who I know who stayed at those jobs are all single and without an estate. It is too painful to ask but I am sure that they all wish they would have made better choices when they were younger.
In college our professors were ex-airline guys. None of them spoke fondly about their years as an airline pilot. They always liked to talk about their glory days in the military or jobs they had prior to reaching the airlines. One profession in particular use to say that "getting there wasn't half the fun it was all the fun". In other words, don't expect to enjoy your time as an airline pilot. It is a job.
I did not expect to have fun at the airlines. I expected to get a job that respected me and my contribution to the company by paying a better wage then I could have gotten by delivering mail and provide a better lifestyle then if I hadn't gone through the effort. I did not want to get stuck at one of the lower rung "fun" jobs. This thread is in reference to the movie "The Wrestler". He got hung up in having fun and realised too late that he blew the best parts of his life. The same fate awaits those who don't move on when it is time.
Invest into your future. Pick a career that offers you some stability and market value when you are older. Your chosen profession should also permit you to have access to a normal life. What is the point of all this if you can not save money, buy real estate and hopefully raise a family if that is what you want? Aviation use to be able to commonly provide those things but, I don't see that as an reachable goal anymore for most.
Skyhigh
I have had a lot of fun jobs in aviation however the lifestyle that comes with most of the funner jobs is unsustainable. Once I got my flight time I moved on to the next rung on the ladder. My goals were finite and they did not include living in a shack in the middle of nowhere Alaska for the rest of my life. It was fun but I got out of there as fast as I could. The guys who I know who stayed at those jobs are all single and without an estate. It is too painful to ask but I am sure that they all wish they would have made better choices when they were younger.
In college our professors were ex-airline guys. None of them spoke fondly about their years as an airline pilot. They always liked to talk about their glory days in the military or jobs they had prior to reaching the airlines. One profession in particular use to say that "getting there wasn't half the fun it was all the fun". In other words, don't expect to enjoy your time as an airline pilot. It is a job.
I did not expect to have fun at the airlines. I expected to get a job that respected me and my contribution to the company by paying a better wage then I could have gotten by delivering mail and provide a better lifestyle then if I hadn't gone through the effort. I did not want to get stuck at one of the lower rung "fun" jobs. This thread is in reference to the movie "The Wrestler". He got hung up in having fun and realised too late that he blew the best parts of his life. The same fate awaits those who don't move on when it is time.
Invest into your future. Pick a career that offers you some stability and market value when you are older. Your chosen profession should also permit you to have access to a normal life. What is the point of all this if you can not save money, buy real estate and hopefully raise a family if that is what you want? Aviation use to be able to commonly provide those things but, I don't see that as an reachable goal anymore for most.
Skyhigh
04-23-2009 | 07:44 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,934
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From: Retired
I think the problem is that Skyhigh had unrealistic expectations. When those weren't met, he became the jaded individual he is today.
I don't know what you thought you'd get out of the field, but I'm pretty much right where I thought I'd be at this time. Perhaps four stripes instead of three, but I still pay the bills and I'm happy doing what I do.
I don't know what you thought you'd get out of the field, but I'm pretty much right where I thought I'd be at this time. Perhaps four stripes instead of three, but I still pay the bills and I'm happy doing what I do.
04-24-2009 | 06:22 AM
#28
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Self Employed.
Joined: May 2005
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From: Corporate Pilot
My expectations
I think the problem is that Skyhigh had unrealistic expectations. When those weren't met, he became the jaded individual he is today.
I don't know what you thought you'd get out of the field, but I'm pretty much right where I thought I'd be at this time. Perhaps four stripes instead of three, but I still pay the bills and I'm happy doing what I do.
I don't know what you thought you'd get out of the field, but I'm pretty much right where I thought I'd be at this time. Perhaps four stripes instead of three, but I still pay the bills and I'm happy doing what I do.
Skyhigh
04-24-2009 | 11:03 AM
#29
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Joined: Apr 2006
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Personally, with the exception of my present carrier, everone is gone, and I rode 3 into the ground, including a Major. But, with a little luck and a lot of work, my finances are secure, about half way to a good retirement funding with the same girl and completed the education of my kids without the wife working a day. I have enjoyed all of it, got to fly to a lot of interesting places in some great planes with pilots I mainly enjoyed.
Irregardless of profession, there are "Rams" out there and most of them owe their fate to personal decisions, which the movie quite clearly portrays.
SkyHigh, unless you are planted to make controversy, I have to agree with the negative positings regarding "what are you thinking" Move on, your writing appears obsessive and unbalanced-you trapped me this time because I liked the movie, but I will not read anymore of your negative rantings. Not everone makes it in aviation, every checkride isn't successful, sometimes the pain doesn't match the gain and you didn't make the final cut. Sorry, but thats my take.
Irregardless of profession, there are "Rams" out there and most of them owe their fate to personal decisions, which the movie quite clearly portrays.
SkyHigh, unless you are planted to make controversy, I have to agree with the negative positings regarding "what are you thinking" Move on, your writing appears obsessive and unbalanced-you trapped me this time because I liked the movie, but I will not read anymore of your negative rantings. Not everone makes it in aviation, every checkride isn't successful, sometimes the pain doesn't match the gain and you didn't make the final cut. Sorry, but thats my take.
04-24-2009 | 11:18 AM
#30
With The Resistance
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,191
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From: Burning the Agitprop of the Apparat
