mshunter

What do you think? Brings the industry down as a whole, or get's you ahead of the other guy? Lets hear it.

Ewfflyer

I must like kicking dead animals, because this horse hasn't moved in awhile. I still voted, but I don't predict more than a handful of "yes's" by the end of it all.

mshunter

I know it's a dead horse, I just want to bring it back into the limelight. Seems there are some people out there who still don't get the message.

KC10 FATboy

PFT / PFT what?

stbloc

If you think that PFT is the core reason for the devaluation of the industry you are dead wrong. If there was a pie chart to show its effect I would be surprised if it was anything greater then 1%. To name a few for declining wages let start with the following.

Bankruptcies
Oil's unexpected rise
911
Deregulation
Outsourcing
stagnate or negative GDP
LCC's
regulations


I can see Richard Anderson in a board meeting telling the union that they aren't going to pay out because people are willing to buy there job. There isn't any industry right now that isn't trying to devalue the American worker.

mshunter

No one said it was the sole reason. But why help the train off the tracks?

Edit to add: This is one thing we as pilots probably have the most control over.

FlyJSH

stbloc,

You, sir, are just wrong.

I dislike having to have a union, but I am thankful I have one.

Only companies that NEED unions, HAVE unions. If things were all peaches and cream management would dole out pay raises in line with profit increases. When times were tough, they would say "We need to cut pay by ten percent, and my check will be the first to be cut." But, unfortunately, not all people are willing to work as a team (though the managers are often the first to say that you are not being a team player when you refuse to take a bean ball).

I have worked in non union shops that had decent owners. When times were good, they rewarded us. And when times were bad, they did everything to avoid cutting our pay or QOL. And when they did cut our benefits, when things turned around, the gave them right back. Yes, they valued us. But those companies are rare.

In an industry where ON PAPER each of us is interchangeable (like assembly line workers or ATPs who all have the same documented credentials), we laborers must protect OUR interests. Otherwise, we will be swept aside in favor of the next, dripping wet certificate, pilot.


As for PFT, all it does is give the job to the highest bidder. If you are willing to pay 10k for 100 hours of SIC, someone else will be willing to pay 100k for 100 hours of PIC. Then, where will you be with your SIC time?

You have been called out by several people on this forum. Either you are a PFT/PFJ stooge, a management wanna-be, or just ridiculously short sighted. I hope, for the well being of your soul, you are just ignorant.

dojetdriver

Scope giveaway.

PFT left a huge black mark on this industry. What many people FAIL to realize it that for a time, it used to be the norm, NOT the exception. At least at the "better" regionals anyway.

It was common that after getting 2-3-4000 hours, some 135/turbine time, or coming out of the military that you STILL had to pay thousands of dollars for training. And at most, it was conditional. Money was paid, training was done, and the hiring was contingent on all that being done first. All for the glorious privilege to fly a turbo prop for $12-13-14/hr and basically no workrules.

Kit Darby used to run around crying about how if you PFT'd you can harm your career and effect any chance of getting hired. Funny thing is, there are THOUSANDS of pilots that PFT'd in the 90's and are now at (insert legacy/high paying freight carrier/SouthWest). And guess what? Didn't/hasn't hurt their career one bit.

For the record, I hope PFT NEVER comes back. It was a disgrace when it was the norm in the 90's, it'll be the same if it ever comes back.

stbloc

I just don't see how a 250 hour pilot sitting right seat of a turboprop at some skydiving outfit harms the industry in any great way. I can understand peoples feeling about Gulfstream but those guys are integrated into about every airline with no issues from there peers. DOJET hit on a great subject regarding scope. This is really a large issue that will effect pay going forward, not some CFI paying to get some experience.

FlyJSH, I'll take ignorant and ridiculously short sighted

FlyJSH

Admitting you have a problem is the first step to recovery.

But if you are still looking for a shortcut, I'll sell you one of my logbooks. I sure could use the money.