FAA Suspends Second Controller In One Week
03-30-2011 | 07:20 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,045
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From: FO
If they are VFR and the captain agrees to take a look, where is the violation of seperation? Doesnt seperation below RSVM in VFR the responsibility of the PIC even on an IFR flight plan? I dont get what the big deal is. And lets face it, there is no way that cirrus is going to move fast enough where SW wont be able to get out of the way.
03-30-2011 | 07:58 AM
#12
Da Hudge
Joined: Oct 2006
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From: Poodle Whisperer
This +1. Now if the loss of separation occurred before the WN flight called the cirrus in sight it's a different matter.
03-30-2011 | 08:12 AM
#13
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2008
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If they are VFR and the captain agrees to take a look, where is the violation of seperation? Doesnt seperation below RSVM in VFR the responsibility of the PIC even on an IFR flight plan? I dont get what the big deal is. And lets face it, there is no way that cirrus is going to move fast enough where SW wont be able to get out of the way.
However, please don't tell me that you believe it's OK to perform a little unbriefed formation flight in dissimilar aircraft types when one of them has a cabin full of paying pasengers just because it's VFR, because that's just poor judgement and we've got plenty of ANG pilots who get paid to do it and have far more practice at it than you.
And if you don't like my opinion, you might take a peek at FAR 91.111 which specifically prohibits unbriefed form flight and further prohibits any type of formation flight with paying PAX onboard
03-30-2011 | 08:21 AM
#14
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,982
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From: 737 CAPT
Well this will go the way that the landings in DCA did. The controller has been suspended. Lots of news and internet talk about it. Questions then start being asked about what the pilots were thinking. The FAA deciding a closer look needs to be taken at everything and whether or not the pilots did the safest thing. Another incident where the outcome is going to be "the pilots' failure to....."
03-30-2011 | 08:26 AM
#15
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2010
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First, I don't know what the SWA crew did or didn't agree to do, so it's too early to pass judgement on them
However, please don't tell me that you believe it's OK to perform a little unbriefed formation flight in dissimilar aircraft types when one of them has a cabin full of paying pasengers just because it's VFR, because that's just poor judgement and we've got plenty of ANG pilots who get paid to do it and have far more practice at it than you.
And if you don't like my opinion, you might take a peek at FAR 91.111 which specifically prohibits unbriefed form flight and further prohibits any type of formation flight with paying PAX onboard
However, please don't tell me that you believe it's OK to perform a little unbriefed formation flight in dissimilar aircraft types when one of them has a cabin full of paying pasengers just because it's VFR, because that's just poor judgement and we've got plenty of ANG pilots who get paid to do it and have far more practice at it than you.
And if you don't like my opinion, you might take a peek at FAR 91.111 which specifically prohibits unbriefed form flight and further prohibits any type of formation flight with paying PAX onboard
03-30-2011 | 08:28 AM
#16
Line Holder
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03-30-2011 | 08:34 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 980
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From: Retired
If they are VFR and the captain agrees to take a look, where is the violation of seperation? Doesnt seperation below RSVM in VFR the responsibility of the PIC even on an IFR flight plan? I dont get what the big deal is. And lets face it, there is no way that cirrus is going to move fast enough where SW wont be able to get out of the way.
03-30-2011 | 08:40 AM
#18
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,982
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From: 737 CAPT
Controller, airline crew suspended over incident in Florida skies - CNN.com
The FAA suspended the air traffic controller, and Southwest Airlines has suspended the captain and first officer on Flight 821, pending the outcome of the investigation.
03-30-2011 | 08:46 AM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2008
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From: Professional Monkey Trainer
First, I don't know what the SWA crew did or didn't agree to do, so it's too early to pass judgement on them
However, please don't tell me that you believe it's OK to perform a little unbriefed formation flight in dissimilar aircraft types when one of them has a cabin full of paying pasengers just because it's VFR, because that's just poor judgement and we've got plenty of ANG pilots who get paid to do it and have far more practice at it than you.
And if you don't like my opinion, you might take a peek at FAR 91.111 which specifically prohibits unbriefed form flight and further prohibits any type of formation flight with paying PAX onboard
However, please don't tell me that you believe it's OK to perform a little unbriefed formation flight in dissimilar aircraft types when one of them has a cabin full of paying pasengers just because it's VFR, because that's just poor judgement and we've got plenty of ANG pilots who get paid to do it and have far more practice at it than you.
And if you don't like my opinion, you might take a peek at FAR 91.111 which specifically prohibits unbriefed form flight and further prohibits any type of formation flight with paying PAX onboard
Even if they were both under IFR flight plans, in VMC conditions the pilot can elect to maintain visual separation from traffic that waives the separation standards for IMC flight.
Was this a good idea on behalf of the controller and SWA crew? I would say no. Does this warrant a suspension? IMO, no.
I remember being in Atlanta's airspace on an arrival and there was a twin Cessna that had broken bravo and wasn't talking to anybody. The controller asked us to visually identify the aircraft, maintain separation while maintaining the integrity of the STAR, and to get the tail # if we could. Do you think it was unsafe for the controller to ask us to identify the make, model and tail number if we could?
IMO this was an example of the controller utilizing CRM without scrambling fighters that would have cost the taxpayers tens of thousands of dollars. The safest idea? No, but there was nothing devious or malicious in this act.
Just my 2c.
03-30-2011 | 08:59 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: DD->DH->RU/XE soon to be EV
They weren't on duty in a military capacity, so maybe they should have declared "SWARSA".
"we'll teach you to do 320kts below 10 so you can beat Delta to the marker"
In the spirit of what I quoted, and how I responded, don't anybody get too spun up. I'm NOT picking on SW in ANY way, shape, or form. It's SIMPLY satire.
True. And/or "what am I'm going to tell them in the hearing?"
"we'll teach you to do 320kts below 10 so you can beat Delta to the marker"
In the spirit of what I quoted, and how I responded, don't anybody get too spun up. I'm NOT picking on SW in ANY way, shape, or form. It's SIMPLY satire.
True. And/or "what am I'm going to tell them in the hearing?"
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