Help Needed for Comms Paragraph
09-09-2011 | 04:29 PM
#11
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From: 127.0.0.1
Michael switched frequency, enabling Robert to speak to their third ground-based communication team.
‘Control, good evening,’ Robert said warmly, ‘Cali Two Zero Seven, climbing through eight hundred feet to four thousand feet, on the WOBUN Three Foxtrot departure.’
Another voice greeted the cockpit via the radio: ‘Cali Two Zero Seven, Departure, good evening. Cross 14 DME from London at flight level six zero.’
‘Roger, Cali Two Zero Seven, Cross the London 14 DME fix at flight level six zero.’
‘Control, good evening,’ Robert said warmly, ‘Cali Two Zero Seven, climbing through eight hundred feet to four thousand feet, on the WOBUN Three Foxtrot departure.’
Another voice greeted the cockpit via the radio: ‘Cali Two Zero Seven, Departure, good evening. Cross 14 DME from London at flight level six zero.’
‘Roger, Cali Two Zero Seven, Cross the London 14 DME fix at flight level six zero.’
09-09-2011 | 10:15 PM
#12
Working Class Dog
Joined: Jan 2007
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From: Spares Pusher
Model-Series
Rebecca,
Don't remember there being a -80.
DC-10-10, -15, -30 and -40. (-20 and -50's were never built)
Boeing: Commercial Airplanes - DC-10 Family
There is a DC-9-80, called the Super 80 by American, but it became the MD-80.
Don't remember there being a -80.
DC-10-10, -15, -30 and -40. (-20 and -50's were never built)
Boeing: Commercial Airplanes - DC-10 Family
There is a DC-9-80, called the Super 80 by American, but it became the MD-80.
09-10-2011 | 01:06 AM
#13
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The 4 transponder digits are from 0-7, so 0479 is invalid. Just make the niner 7 or less. USMC, I've never heard flash, always ident, and I reply with the code and ident. I like it though and may try it! IFF (Identification, Friend or Foe) is the same as the squawk code.
Take out the "with you" part when talking to departure. That bugs a lot of pilots as unnecessary and unprofessional. It wastes precious radio frequency time and is redundant.
For a US departure you would talk to:
ATIS (automated terminal information service) - local radio station broadcasting constant weather info for that particular airport. Pilots just listen as it the frees up the same info being transmitted repeatedly to each departing (or arriving) flight. Often called "the numbers", although it's really identified with a letter, as in, Dulles Clearance, Mooney N9373M instruments to Charlie Alpha Echo (my destination airport CAE),with Bravo. Where Bravo is the current weather from ATIS.
Clearance Delivery to get your flight plan approved (cleared as filed, or an amended routing) and what runway and departure procedure to expect.
Ground Control - to taxi to the appropriate runway. "Taxi to runway 33, via Alpha, Delta, and Whiskey. where Alpha, Delta and Whiskey are the taxiways.
Tower - to receive take off clearance.
Departure - once airborne
In the US next would be "Center". The international airline guys are the experts here - I'm a US private pilot.
I'm not sure if the actually say "feet" as in "climb and maintain 4000 feet", it would just be "climb and maintain 4000". Again brevity is key for congested radio frequencies. MAYBE they do use it "over there" to distinguish between feet and meters. Again a real international guy would be able to answer that.
Good Luck!
Take out the "with you" part when talking to departure. That bugs a lot of pilots as unnecessary and unprofessional. It wastes precious radio frequency time and is redundant.
For a US departure you would talk to:
ATIS (automated terminal information service) - local radio station broadcasting constant weather info for that particular airport. Pilots just listen as it the frees up the same info being transmitted repeatedly to each departing (or arriving) flight. Often called "the numbers", although it's really identified with a letter, as in, Dulles Clearance, Mooney N9373M instruments to Charlie Alpha Echo (my destination airport CAE),with Bravo. Where Bravo is the current weather from ATIS.
Clearance Delivery to get your flight plan approved (cleared as filed, or an amended routing) and what runway and departure procedure to expect.
Ground Control - to taxi to the appropriate runway. "Taxi to runway 33, via Alpha, Delta, and Whiskey. where Alpha, Delta and Whiskey are the taxiways.
Tower - to receive take off clearance.
Departure - once airborne
In the US next would be "Center". The international airline guys are the experts here - I'm a US private pilot.
I'm not sure if the actually say "feet" as in "climb and maintain 4000 feet", it would just be "climb and maintain 4000". Again brevity is key for congested radio frequencies. MAYBE they do use it "over there" to distinguish between feet and meters. Again a real international guy would be able to answer that.
Good Luck!
09-10-2011 | 01:07 AM
#14
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Rebecca,
Don't remember there being a -80.
DC-10-10, -15, -30 and -40. (-20 and -50's were never built)
Boeing: Commercial Airplanes - DC-10 Family
There is a DC-9-80, called the Super 80 by American, but it became the MD-80.
Don't remember there being a -80.
DC-10-10, -15, -30 and -40. (-20 and -50's were never built)
Boeing: Commercial Airplanes - DC-10 Family
There is a DC-9-80, called the Super 80 by American, but it became the MD-80.
09-10-2011 | 01:11 AM
#15
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Never seen a DC-10-80 but you never know. Most Tens used auto throttles for takeoff so the Captain would push the throttles up to spool up the engines, push the autothrottle button on the throtles and then keep his hand on the throttles till the plane reached the "takeoof decision speed" or V1. At that point they're going to fly so he'd remove his hand from the throttles. The F/O would keep his hands to his self. Most airlines have the non flying pilot make the "positive rate" call and the flying pilot replies "gear up." Departure out of LHR uses "London Control" as their callsign and a current chart for the WOBUN 3F shows 119.77 as the freq. Tens can use 5, 15 or 22 degrees of flaps for takeoff, going LHR to SFO I'd guess they'd use 5 so the pilot flying would call "flaps up" and the non-flying pilot would repeat the command and move the flap lever. London has radar so they know where you are and what you're doing. The whole reason for have departures is so the controller doesn't have to tell you to turn at the London 7 DME to join the Midhurst 357 radial. The check in might go something like:
Michael switched frequency, enabling Robert to speak to their third ground-based communication team.
‘Control, good evening,’ Robert said warmly, ‘Cali Two Zero Seven, climbing through eight hundred feet to four thousand feet, on the WOBUN Three Foxtrot departure.’
Another voice greeted the cockpit via the radio: ‘Cali Two Zero Seven, Departure, good evening. Cross 14 DME from London at flight level six zero.’
‘Roger, Cali Two Zero Seven, Cross the London 14 DME fix at flight level six zero.’
Michael switched frequency, enabling Robert to speak to their third ground-based communication team.
‘Control, good evening,’ Robert said warmly, ‘Cali Two Zero Seven, climbing through eight hundred feet to four thousand feet, on the WOBUN Three Foxtrot departure.’
Another voice greeted the cockpit via the radio: ‘Cali Two Zero Seven, Departure, good evening. Cross 14 DME from London at flight level six zero.’
‘Roger, Cali Two Zero Seven, Cross the London 14 DME fix at flight level six zero.’
09-10-2011 | 09:52 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
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From: FDX 767 FO
I have only ever heard "flash" from USN/USMC jet dudes.
Also, I haven't flown overseas in 11 years but is it common now to tell tower you are airborne? I always get/got told to switch departure and have never initiated the call unless tower was slow to switch me.
Also, I haven't flown overseas in 11 years but is it common now to tell tower you are airborne? I always get/got told to switch departure and have never initiated the call unless tower was slow to switch me.
09-10-2011 | 03:44 PM
#17
Eats shoots and leaves...
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From: Didactic Synthetic Aviation Experience Provider
I'll preface all of this by stating I haven't flown out of EGLL, and it's been quite a while since I've been out of anywhere in the UK, so I may be off on somethings, but here goes:
I think "flash" is definitely some super-secret military talk designed to sound cool
. The FAA/ICAO standard phraseology is "Squawk Ident." They'll set the code in the transponder before pushback, and typically no further mention will be made of it in an area such as London. The controller will see the code along with their radar target, but won't need them to ident.
Regarding telling tower you are airborne, no - that's not typical. In fact in some places, the tower calls and tells you what you're airborne time was; many places they will tell you when to contact departure. Often specific instructions for switching to departure at larger airports are included in the Departure Procedures (DP), with variations including to: switch immediately after takeoff without being told by tower, switching at a specific altitude or fix, or NOT switching until specifically being told by the tower.
In the case of the MID departures from EGLL, the DP says "When instructed contact LONDON Control." So to actually answer the question, I wouldn't say anything until Tower told me "contact control."
According to my Jepps (see attached image below), 6000 is still an altitude, as Transition Altitude is 6000' - climbing above 6000' you would transition to Levels.
To get nit-picky (what SHOULD be done, not what might actually happen):
Sterile cockpit rule below 10,000' - no extraneous conversation allowed.
One of the purposes of DP's is to standardize routings and reduce radio transmissions. The flight would typically receive a clearance such as "CALI 270, CLEARED SAN FRANCISCO VIA WOBURN 3 FOXTROT DEPARTURE, FLIGHT PLAN ROUTE, MAINTAIN SIX THOUSAND FEET, SQUAWK 1234" from HEATHROW delivery. After takeoff, the crew will then fly that routing without further specific instruction from ATC.
On each initial contact with ATC, the pilots will give their call sign, current altitude, assigned altitude (if different from current), and any special information such as a heading or airspeed assigned by ATC, eg: "CALI TWO SEVEN ZERO, TWO THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED CLIMBING SIX THOUSAND."
The controller would typically respond with "CALI TWO SEVEN ZERO, RADAR CONTACT, MAINTAIN SIX THOUSAND FEET."
The crew will comply with routing and altitude restrictions on the DP and the altitude assigned by ATC. If ATC needs to modify this routing, then they will issue additional instructions, for example if the following weren't already part of the DP, the following would be phrased as:
"CALI TWO SEVEN ZERO, FLY HEADING 300, INTERCEPT MIDHURST THREE FIVE SEVEN DEGREE RADIAL, CROSS LONDON VOR TEN DME (pronounced 'DEE EM EEE') AT FOUR THOUSAND FEET." The crew would read this back in similar fashion.
Most of the radio communication on departure will be a series of altitude changes, clearances direct to fixes further down the route, and frequency changes to subsequent controllers
"CALI TWO SEVEN ZERO, CLIMB LEVEL ONE HUNDRED"
"CALI TWO SEVEN ZERO, VACATING SIX THOUSAND, CLIMBING LEVEL ONE HUNDRED"
CALI TWO SEVEN ZERO, ROUTE DIRECT DIKAS"
"ROUTE DIRECT DIKAS, CALI TWO SEVEN ZERO"
CALI TWO SEVEN ZERO, CONTACT SHANNON, ONE TWO FIVE DECIMAL TWO SEVEN FIVE"
"SHANNON ONE TWO FIVE DECIMAL TWO SEVEN FIVE"
And so on. Here are a couple of links if you want to really go off the deep end with all of this. This first one is relatively brief, the second is a very large document on UK ATC procedures.
Sorry to go so long with this.
http://www.skybrary.aero/bookshelf/books/115.pdf
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP413.pdf
. The FAA/ICAO standard phraseology is "Squawk Ident." They'll set the code in the transponder before pushback, and typically no further mention will be made of it in an area such as London. The controller will see the code along with their radar target, but won't need them to ident.Regarding telling tower you are airborne, no - that's not typical. In fact in some places, the tower calls and tells you what you're airborne time was; many places they will tell you when to contact departure. Often specific instructions for switching to departure at larger airports are included in the Departure Procedures (DP), with variations including to: switch immediately after takeoff without being told by tower, switching at a specific altitude or fix, or NOT switching until specifically being told by the tower.
In the case of the MID departures from EGLL, the DP says "When instructed contact LONDON Control." So to actually answer the question, I wouldn't say anything until Tower told me "contact control."
Another voice greeted the cockpit via the radio: ‘Cali Two Zero Seven, Departure, good evening. Cross 14 DME from London at flight level six zero.’
‘Roger, Cali Two Zero Seven, Cross the London 14 DME fix at flight level six zero.’
‘Roger, Cali Two Zero Seven, Cross the London 14 DME fix at flight level six zero.’
To get nit-picky (what SHOULD be done, not what might actually happen):
‘Never get tired of that sound,’ Robert smiled in a lighter tone, referring to the power behind the DC-10 at takeoff. ‘Tower, Cali Two Zero Seven, we are airbourne.’
‘Departure, good evening,’ Robert said warmly, ‘Cali Two Zero Seven, climbing through eight hundred feet to four thousand feet, approaching LON Delta Seven on WOBUN Three Foxtrot departure heading to Bovingdon, with you.’
Another voice greeted the cockpit via the radio: ‘Cali Two Zero Seven, Departure, good evening. At LON Delta Seven turn right onto MID VOR Romeo Three Five Seven. Climb and maintain four thousand feet at LON Delta Ten.’
‘Roger, Cali Two Zero Seven, at LON Delta Seven turn right onto MID VOR Romeo Three Five Seven. Climb and maintain four thousand feet at LON Delta Ten.’
Another voice greeted the cockpit via the radio: ‘Cali Two Zero Seven, Departure, good evening. At LON Delta Seven turn right onto MID VOR Romeo Three Five Seven. Climb and maintain four thousand feet at LON Delta Ten.’
‘Roger, Cali Two Zero Seven, at LON Delta Seven turn right onto MID VOR Romeo Three Five Seven. Climb and maintain four thousand feet at LON Delta Ten.’
On each initial contact with ATC, the pilots will give their call sign, current altitude, assigned altitude (if different from current), and any special information such as a heading or airspeed assigned by ATC, eg: "CALI TWO SEVEN ZERO, TWO THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED CLIMBING SIX THOUSAND."
The controller would typically respond with "CALI TWO SEVEN ZERO, RADAR CONTACT, MAINTAIN SIX THOUSAND FEET."
The crew will comply with routing and altitude restrictions on the DP and the altitude assigned by ATC. If ATC needs to modify this routing, then they will issue additional instructions, for example if the following weren't already part of the DP, the following would be phrased as:
At LON Delta Seven turn right onto MID VOR Romeo Three Five Seven. Climb and maintain four thousand feet at LON Delta Ten.’
Most of the radio communication on departure will be a series of altitude changes, clearances direct to fixes further down the route, and frequency changes to subsequent controllers
"CALI TWO SEVEN ZERO, CLIMB LEVEL ONE HUNDRED"
"CALI TWO SEVEN ZERO, VACATING SIX THOUSAND, CLIMBING LEVEL ONE HUNDRED"
CALI TWO SEVEN ZERO, ROUTE DIRECT DIKAS"
"ROUTE DIRECT DIKAS, CALI TWO SEVEN ZERO"
CALI TWO SEVEN ZERO, CONTACT SHANNON, ONE TWO FIVE DECIMAL TWO SEVEN FIVE"
"SHANNON ONE TWO FIVE DECIMAL TWO SEVEN FIVE"
And so on. Here are a couple of links if you want to really go off the deep end with all of this. This first one is relatively brief, the second is a very large document on UK ATC procedures.
Sorry to go so long with this.
http://www.skybrary.aero/bookshelf/books/115.pdf
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP413.pdf
Last edited by bcrosier; 09-11-2011 at 04:56 AM. Reason: Trying the image again.
09-10-2011 | 07:19 PM
#18
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2011
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From: King Air Driver
N243AT: 'Alright, here comes the flash!!'
09-10-2011 | 07:57 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
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From: Sr. VP of button pushing
BCorsier,
I think you're right, I haven't been below transition in England for a while. I do it the easy way, if they say feet I'm local, when they say flight level it's time to switch to 1013.
I think you're right, I haven't been below transition in England for a while. I do it the easy way, if they say feet I'm local, when they say flight level it's time to switch to 1013.
09-11-2011 | 01:20 PM
#20
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This might be a little difficult for you to follow if you're listening to it, but if you wanted these are a bunch of Air Traffic Control frequencies, both domestic and international that you can listen to and hear how certain things are phrased. Unfortunately London Heathrow is not on there.
All Airport Feeds | Live Air Traffic Control Audio Feeds | LiveATC.net
All Airport Feeds | Live Air Traffic Control Audio Feeds | LiveATC.net
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