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Q and A with Duane Woerth

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Q and A with Duane Woerth

Old 07-20-2005, 02:51 PM
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Default Q and A with Duane Woerth

Council 12 Weekend Update : July 16th 2005

This week we held our regularly scheduled monthly meeting of Council 12. At
the meeting we had a guest speaker, Captain Duane Woerth. In this Weekend
Update, we have synopsized Captain Woerth's visit, including his remarks and
the Q&A that followed for over two hours.

Synopsis of Council 12 Meeting with Duane Woerth

The July 11th Council 12 meeting came to order at 10:00 in the Penthouse
Ballroom of the Ramada O'Hare Plaza.

There were 45 attendees total; 1 wife, 1 furloughee, 2 MEC officers, 1 MEC
Staff member, 7 ALPA volunteers and 3 retirees present were present in the

Chairman Neil Swindells rose with a brief introduction of our Guest Speaker,
Captain Duane Woerth, President of ALPA International:

Today, it gives me great pleasure to be the Chairman of Council 12 and
provide the pilots of this great Council the opportunity to hear and
converse with the President of ALPA International, Captain Duane Woerth. In
addition, I would also like to acknowledge UAL Captain Paul Rice, Vice
President of Administration and Pete Janhunen of ALPA Communications for
being here today.

This is the first and, to my knowledge, the only UAL Council Captain Woerth
has traveled to speak to, so I am honored he accepted our invitation to
speak to you firsthand and unfiltered.

The genesis of this visit owes itself to some remarks I made in my first
letter to you as your Council Chairman in March of this year.

Those comments were:

(Quote)"I know there are some of you who are somewhat disenchanted with the
seeming lack of effort and coordination of the ALPA National officers with
respect to our predicament during bankruptcy. I can assure you that ALPA
National is VERY aware of the feelings of your MEC and your Master Chairman,
and they are not all good. As your Council Chairman, I will continue to hold
National's feet to the fire on issues that face us today and into the

We rightfully expect ALPA National to be responsive to the needs of UAL
pilots, especially when many of the battles we are fighting are precursors
to the battles ALL ALPA pilots will be fighting shortly. I am personally
disappointed in some of the things I have seen from Herndon in recent

Those statements led to some phone calls and discussions of the issues and
then, ultimately, Captain Woerth's visit today. He has agreed to address
your concerns about ALPA, the Industry and anything else that is on your
mind concerning this Association and our place as United Pilots within the
Association and the Industry.

However, before we begin, I would like to quote part of Captain Woerth's
speech to the ALPA BOD in October of 2004, which illuminated what many
people believe is one of our fundamental problems, both in terms of both Jet
Feeders at home and International Alliance partners abroad.

Captain Woerth said:

(Quote) "A dynamic that our predecessors did not have to contend with was
airline brand management. Regulation essentially prevented it by route
authority limitations.

Today, airline brands for both passenger and all-cargo operations have
developed elaborate strategies to get pilots who work for separate companies
with separate contracts and seniority lists to compete for work within the
brand on a "lowest-bid" basis. Of all the challenges vexing us in the first
years of the 21st Century, this may be the greatest.

The Bilateral Scope Impact Committee's report that went to the Executive
Board was embraced and acclaimed for good reason. It cut to the heart of the
matter and succinctly stated the obvious: job security and career
progression opportunities are two sides of the same coin. Against an airline
brand management strategy, only a counter strategy by the pilots within the
brand to deal with both issues together has any chance of succeeding.

If we want to stop erosion of ALPA pay standards, we must deal with job
security and career progression as a single issue. A combination of fences
and bridges will be required. If we accept the status quo, the race to the
bottom will continue.

If we stop pointing fingers and start joining hands, some group of pilots
within some brand will be the first to develop a prototype model that stops
the bleeding. It is said that "necessity" is the mother of invention. With
all the pain, with all the bloodshed within our ranks, we should have all
the "necessity" we need to invent something new to stop the whipsawing.

To steal a line from Bob Chimenti, chairman of the FedEx Negotiating
Committee, 'For a collective bargaining breakthrough of this magnitude, line
pilots will erect 10-foot tall statues of the negotiators who will deliver
it.' He could be right - it's that important."(Unquote)

On behalf of the pilots of Council 12 and United pilots everywhere, I hope
Captain Woerth can help provide the leadership needed to find the solution
to that particular problem, especially while faced with a growing feeder jet
influence within the Association at the possible expense of those who both
built and fund it. I also hope that the 10 foot statue erected after the
solution is found contains a United Airlines pilot standing arm in arm with
his Brother and Sister pilots across the Association.

I thank you all for your attendance today and now I would like to introduce
Captain Duane Woerth, President of ALPA International.

Captain Duane Woerth's Remarks:

"State of the Union"

. ALPA Natl. Finances were $139m/yr in income in '01when ALPA was in an
organizing effort with Fed Ex, Continental, which added 12,000 new members
in 24 months.
. ALPA has remained in black through the whole period of this downturn and
concessionary period and has $100m/yr revenue now.
. Major Contingency Fund is now at approximately $80m+ cash, and the
Association has about $20m in real estate property. We also have our own
offshore insurance subsidiary called Kittyhawk.
. Union is stronger now financially than in even the recent past, the
decrease in revenues notwithstanding.


. Spring '02 was first exposure by ALPA to deficit reduction contributions
with US Airways.
. There were only 8 pensions in 43 airlines in ALPA
. There are currently only 3 pensions left in the 41 remaining airlines
. Only fix is legislative, which became apparent in '02 discussions with
. Airlines worked to oppose legislation sought by ALPA.
. In early '03, launched new effort legislatively co-sponsored by 125 people
. AA, NWA, and UAL all supported legislation, DAL did not.
. Bush 100% opposed to relief and opposed ATSB process.
. As for post 9/11 recovery, Congress only approved $5B in bailout vs. $15B
requested, with the PBGC also opposing DRC legislation
. Thought something was finally done in Nov '03, it was only a 2 year
deferment that passed the House, with the Senate passing it in April '04.
. It was ALWAYS seen as a "band aid" fix though as everyone saw the need to
do wholesale reform of the DB situation.
. At UAL, the ATSB then did not approve a loan guarantee that was ready to
be put in place, as the Bush White House torpedoed the process. Therefore,
only 16% of $10B allocated to airlines was used, with the Government now
approving a merger between the two main recipients of the loan guarantee.
. AT THAT TIME, United management then saw the writing on the wall and
stopped working on pension reform, which the White House had effectively
snuffed out.
. ALPA and some in Congress are still currently working on legislation, but
the future of the reform is uncertain

Age 60

. Age 60 has been issue for decades, even since it was enacted by the FAA in
. Because of the current state of industry and perceived changes within the
Association, ALPA surveyed the entire membership and did a telephone survey
to back up those "self-selection" results (pilots self selected whether to
take the poll or not).
. Captain Woerth was surprised at the survey results, as he expected a tie
or results much closer to even. The results showed about a 17 point gulf in
favor of maintaining Age 60.
. The issue comes up in congress regularly, almost annually
. Ted Stevens, Chairman of the Commerce committee wants to change rule and
may have support in Congress to pass it this time.

Brand Management/Feeders/International

. ALPA represents 41 airlines
. You can buy tickets on 11 airlines for cargo, but only 6 for passenger
. Fee for departure and cost plus contracts (20%+ guaranteed profit in some
cases) has been a disaster for majors! Management should be shot!
. Now it is more "pay to play" and Mesa just had to pay UAL $30m to be a UAL
. The 50 seat jet is the most expensive unit cost airliner ever built.
. Now 20% more airplanes flying less people than before 9/11
. Independence Air is a perfect example of an airline that can't self
support a 50 seat airline product if they pay for all of their own expenses.


. ALPA working to improve FFDO training and quality of life with respect to
carrying procedures.
. Transportation Worker ID Card (TWIC) was approved and ready for rollout
PRIOR to 9/11. These smart cards have now been put on the back-burner by the
TSA in an attempt to re-invent the wheel.
. Captain Woerth joined the "Trusted Traveler program." It took him 2 days
to get through the entire process, but the pilot background check takes 2
months. This is just ridiculous.
. Congress must intervene and go over the top of the TSA to help our plight.
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Old 07-20-2005, 02:52 PM
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Is there hope for ALPA at $60 per barrel?

. North America is the only region of world that is not currently
. With fuel at $60/barrel long term, though, the future is uncertain unless
carriers price their product to survive.
. Europe carriers are nearly always close to 100% hedged to avoid the
problem U.S. carriers are currently facing, with the exception of SWA.
Sounds like a management problem AGAIN!

Question & Answer Session:

Q: How are recruiting efforts at JetBlue and other discount carriers?

. Organizing is fundamental to labor movement. Recently a major drive at
AMR, but only support from some pilots, not their union leadership, which
has changed hands numerous times in the last few years. Now working on SWA
and Airtran. JetBlue and Skywest have been frustrating. Trying to get a core
group of guys on the inside. JetBlue pilots aren't interested until their
JBLU stock vests (5 years per pilot).

Q: Are there still any Age 60 activities ongoing?

. ALPA board policy is to maintain current rule. Senate knows result of our
survey. Most old people want to change it, young people don't. ALPA
testimony will be to report the results of the survey. FAA will continue to
say don't change Age 60 rule. This current time around, we will get to see
what both the House and Senate really thinks about Age 60. Last time in '03
vote in Senate was 55 in favor of no change. This was the first time that
major airline managements weighed in.

Q: The FAA requires age 60, but PBGC doesn't recognize that as normal
retirement age for pilots, as it assumes age 65 for the maximum payout. Do
you have any feedback on legislation to get Age 60/65 recognition from the

. ALPA has been working on this for 2 years. Legislation introduced by Akaka
(HI), which ALPA wrote. ALPA doesn't have support within key committees in
Congress. Some there see conflict with the Age 60 rule, too. Should they
approve us to work longer so we can get credit, or should we just get the
credit based on Age 60 mandate? Congressmen and Senators are conflicted over
2 issues. The water is still muddy on this issue, but it is hopefully
gaining support. Not enough support, though, yet.

Q: North America is not a profitable place to operate an airline. Is ALPA
working with ATA or the current administration to adjust the playing field
to make it level for all carriers? (i.e. some upstarts/new entrants get free
gates, local government subsidies, etc.)

. ATA has a minority rule. Without 95% supermajority, nothing passes.
JetBlue and SWA can and do, therefore, effectively neuter the organization
on these issues. SWA only serves 60 out of the 429 commercial airports in
USA. The rest of the companies hold the industry structure together. In
consumer America, it appears to be all about low prices, free markets and
deregulation. Until costs get passed down, and small communities have to pay
"real costs" for their air service, nothing will change.

Q: There were supposedly 19,000 survey participants, but only 6,000 were
supposedly counted for statistical reasons.is this true?

. There was some statistical normalizing, but I am not an expert on the
subject. Perhaps Pete Janhunen, ALPA Communications might know more about
the statistics involved.

. Pete Janhunen: Phone interview numbers were presented in full, then
compared with the full 19,000 survey responses, then the numbers were pared
down for statistical analysis and accuracy. All sets of data were reflective
of the same results.

. Neil Swindells: Point differential changed 3% with normalized results,
with Age 60 vote difference going from 14% to 17% in favor of maintaining
Age 60.

. Captain Woerth: There was no effort to gain pre-conceived results to
maintain the status quo, otherwise there would have been no point to doing
any survey at all.

Q: Has a letter of agreement been made between ALPA and Canadian pilots to
allow pilots to fly to age 65? If so, are we allowing unsafe pilots to fly

. There has not been an Age 60 rule in Canada in a long time. Canadian
licensing standards are different and allow pilots to fly to Age 65.

Q: Isn't ALPA National out of step internationally because 90%+ of ICAO
carriers are Age 65?

. No, but if you put it that way, the membership is out of step. They want
to keep age 60. ICAO is actually supposed to be age 60. Most airlines have
exemptions. ICAO is a voluntary, not regulatory organization.

Q: There is concern about the Age 60 process due to the Local Council
resolutions and the survey results. There is also concern about how ALPA
business is done globally within the Association. What is ALPA's intent for
doing business in the future? Is it going to be strictly polling?

. This question goes to the heart of big participation issues across all
unions. We need more people at meetings, but we are not going to govern by
polling. Polling is a good way to get a "good faith effort" feeling of the
whole body. Landum-Grifffin Act governs how our union does business on
issues regardless of the polling done or the Local resolutions. Union
representatives can not be mandated on how to vote at their MEC. It doesn't
matter if whole council shows up and passes resolutions. Officers use their
best judgment with all available information. Right now is worst of times.
No matter what a pilot's background, no possibility in world that we could
have predicted our current plight. Representatives have to take input from
every source and measure the needs of their particular constituency.

Q: Some pilots have been ALPA members for over 30 years and are throwing
their ALPA pins in the garbage because of the results of the Age 60 survey.
While that poll is used for justification for present position, its results
show that as they age, almost 100% of our membership will eventually want to
work past age 60. Some older pilots voted to give up our pensions to save
UAL. Now we are asking young pilots to give up short term promotions to save
senior pilots' pensions. We should only listen to what older pilots want and
not what younger pilots say. When they get older, they will want what we
want. We have put in more years and more dues paid. We have a window of
opportunity with a favorable Congress to get a higher retirement age. Do you
understand how serious it is to pass up this brief window of opportunity for
selfish reasons?

. We must focus on 2 things. 1) ALPA is a democracy. 2) You should expect
your leaders to follow direction.

. In '03 UAL pilots were the staunchest opponents to raising Age 60. Now
that their pensions are gone, things have changed for many of them. However,
until the democratic process tells us that we want it changed, this is the
position of the body.

Q: As a representative of both legacy carriers and regional carriers, what
message do you convey to them that is different than what we hear?

. It is the exact same message: Scope. They should not be against scope, as
they need it themselves. Mesaba is a prime example. They had a 48 hour
lock-out where the issue was scope over Big Sky. All pilots need the same
thing no matter what aircraft they fly: You need to protect the career.
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Old 07-20-2005, 02:53 PM
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Q: When you say that the seat mile cost is much higher for a 50 seat jet,
the only solution is low pay rates or no flying, isn't it?

. We are in a vendor relationship. Air Wisconsin is a good example. The
company said "We are going to lose our whole business as we are exclusively
a UAL feeder, so you have to give us pay cuts." The pilots said "We are not
taking pay cuts to subsidize the airline." A while back they took a pay cut
to pay for long term security with UAL. Now they are grieving pay cut due to
the current circumstances that management has let occur.

Q: Some pilots have worked for many other unions and they shake their head
at ALPA National. The PAC is a good thing, but our union has derailed. We
can read quotes from "Flying The Line II" about unity but with 41 carriers
all pulling in different directions, we are in shambles. What are we doing
to fix unity, because without it we are nothing?

. In my first week in office, I held a special meeting and started a pilot
unity campaign. So, we increased our organizing campaign, but that is not
enough. In the maritime and building trades, you are loyal to a job, not a
company, like in airlines. There is a tribal mentality in the airline pilot
business. There used to be camaraderie, but now we are all tribal. No other
humans on this planet care about us. AFL-CIO convention at the end of this
month and we are fighting amongst ourselves because of our lack of political

Q: Where do we stand with overall effectiveness within AFL-CIO?

. We pay them 8 cents per member per month. Not much political clout, but we
do what we can to use their clout whenever possible.

Q: If you lost of your wages and your pension, would you like to keep

. Yes.

Q: You say ALPA is a democracy, but don't you think that there are certain
issues that we need to take the lead on?

. We did take the lead by polling the group. I have differing opinions than
the board on many issues, but it is not appropriate for me to use my opinion
to go against the will of the body, which is YOU, the membership.

Q: There are rumors about JetBlue and an 8 hour rule exemption. Can you fill
us in on that and does ALPA oppose changing the rule?

. Yes and Yes! In the 90's, FAA was thinking about changing rules. Never
materialized. IFALPA embraces our rules. When I got wind of JetBlue's plans,
I personally called the FAA Administrator and told them ALPA was against it.
The FAA swears that there will not be an exemption given to anyone. The
local NY FAA let JetBlue do some illegal test flights with augmented crews.
UAL pilots are greatly exposed to this threat due to their high number of
augmentation flights in the international arena. This would put hundreds of
jobs at stake here and at other ALPA carriers. ALPA is all over this one.

Q: There are certainly problems with our selfish nature of society. However,
it appears cabotage is coming and will screw us all. If ALPA doesn't have
any political power within the AFL-CIO, are we are going to see this? What
is ALPA doing to stop it?

. Cabotage is contained right now. The European Union has pulled it off of
their wish list.

Q: Some of us are confused regarding ALPA's dual representation role. How
does ALPA handle this?

. I don't see any difference between that and UAL vs. NWA vs. DAL. We should
all want the same thing. Same pay, same work rules, and same pension. Since
deregulation, the regional/feeder carrot has always been cheap labor working
for less, but eventually moving on to flying bigger airplanes and making
more. These feeder jobs were stepping stone jobs. These pilots didn't care
about pensions or work rules. Now these jobs are more long term in this
industry. This has changed their focus, because now they see that their
interests are exactly the same as yours. If we see a difference between
pilot groups, things are all lost. ALPA was even sued by these feeders over
scope clauses. It is wrong to think that job security isn't important. It is
also wrong to fight each other. Feeder pilots are not a problem, but the
tactics their companies use against them and us are.

Q: Most of the issues that we are talking about are out of our hands. UAL
CEO Glenn Tilton is out there planning out the next 20-30 yrs. What are
ALPA's long term plans for the next 20 years in the global market?

. First, we are trying to get rid of word "regional" from our lexicon.
American threw out Eagle, now they are in ALPA. We have virtually all of
these carriers except Skywest and Chautuaqua.

. Internationally, we have had a strategic plan since the early 90's. We
sell ALPA services to different international pilot groups. Economic and
Financial Analysis works with different pilot groups to educate them on the
end results of things like cabotage and foreign ownership. Indeed, foreign
ownership is a bigger threat than cabotage now. We are spreading our message
to unify pilots internationally. ALPA is more on the frontlines in Europe
with airlines like Ryanair than even our European allies.

Q: What about oil now that the Strategic Petroleum Reserve is nearly full?

. What affects the oil industry affects pilots. The strategic reserves are
almost full, but oil is still very expensive. China and India are only a 3%
factor in the growth of petroleum use. This shouldn't make the price of oil
double. Our government needs to send signals to the world market that oil
needs to stabilize.

Q: What we are seeing at UAL is an attack on our profession by management.
We fly full airplanes, yet somehow we can't make money. Prices can't go up
because of the shell game that the airlines are playing. The goal seems to
be to eliminate the union. We are not unified. This is why this is
happening. The stick is gone. We have no power. In the process of a new UAL
pilot contract during the bankruptcy, the completely separate LCO fleet was
developed. Why is there no LCO representative on the UAL MEC?

. The office determines if the bargaining process is correct and ensures
that labor law has not being violated. Other than that, each company has
state's rights to negotiate their own contract.

(Eric Popper, C12 S/T, interjected that at least eight members of the MEC
are LCO pilots. A resolution passed at the MEC established that a LCO pilot
serve on the System Schedule Committee at all times.)

Q: We want to look forward to negotiations in a time of more leverage. While
most pilots are in favor of "Decision 83," has ALPA looked at paying by
flight hour or duty hour?

. The ALPA CBA Committee constantly looks at bargaining goals.

Q: Some pilots feel that ALPA is not proactive, but too reactive. We should
fight the loss of our pension with an SOS. We are too timid. We are
producing more and getting less. As you can see from the low turnout for
this meeting, ALPA National is not leading effectively. We need less
rhetoric, more effectiveness. What can we do?

. Let's talk about an SOS. Was there a strike ballot at UAL over the
pensions? No. How can we have an SOS in this bankruptcy case? With Eastern,
the SOS might have happened if the government had not threatened the MECs
with illegal job action and jail time.

Q: Where are we going from here? People have second jobs. Some want to
emigrate. How are we going to survive merging/consolidation in terms of
seniority integration?

. Fragmentation is the buzzword. Mergers are late. Where would UAL be
without fragmentation of Pan Am? I wish we could have done better with
Eastern. Consolidation was trying to happen prior to 9/11. Consolidation
benefits pilots. Pan Am pilots were working for a weak carrier with poor
pay, they went to UAL which was much better for them. NWA could fragment the
Pacific to AMR quite easily. We need to treat each other like UAL/PAA did
and do right for each other.

Q: ALPA publicly states that we don't represent retirees. Why?

. That is our policy.

Q: Is ALPA going to support over Age 60 if it becomes law?

. Yes. We will honor and support the law.

Q: Could you live on $29k per year if you were in my shoes?

. No.
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Old 07-20-2005, 02:53 PM
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Q: If the Congress forces the FAA to change the rule to age 65, what
prevents FAA from making tight medical requirements that a lot of us could
not pass younger than Age 60?

. The FAA has stated publicly that if Congress changes the age, they will
offset the age by imposing higher standards to maintain their "equivalent
level of safety."

Q: Can we put out information publicly in newspapers to educate the public
about our plight?

. Generally we have found out that there is little impact. The public
doesn't care about us. The only opinion that matters about airline pilots is
our own.

After being at the podium for three straight hours, Captain Woerth left and
Council 12 conducted its normal monthly meeting. The minutes for the meeting
will be released shortly.

Kevin Buchar, Chairman C12 R&I Committee and Delegate to the Chicago
Federation of Labor has asked for the following comments to be included in
this Weekend Update:

The pilots of Council 12 wish to express their support for the pilots of
Trans States Airlines, a United Express carrier. As highlighted in a recent
issue of Air Line Pilot magazine, Trans States management has engaged in a
series of intimidating actions while formulating an alter-ego airline named
GoJets. GoJets is slated to operate 70 seat jets under the United Express
banner. Trans States management is attempting to recruit pilots from Trans
States to staff GoJets, which would be operated outside their current
collective bargaining agreement. Our profession is under attack on many
fronts at many airlines. If you have the opportunity, please express your
support to Trans States pilots as they face this threat to their contract
and our profession.

In other news, Chicago will host the 25th Constitutional Convention of the
AFL-CIO. The event will be held in Festival Hall at Navy Pier from July 25

Additionally, due to some misunderstanding regarding comments made by the
C12 LSC, the following clarification has been issued by Jim Crail, C12 LSC
737 Representative:
There seems to be some consternation on the 737 fleet about a comment I made
in the last LSC Report. It is noted and unfortunate that it made it through
the "vetting" process because it is being taken in a light that it was not

Your LSC strives for the best possible flying on all fleets in ORD, period.
In that regard for the last two months, the 737s in ORD have had some of the
best 737 flying in the system, (I would call it the best.) and it has been
far superior to A320 flying in almost every measure. Our fellow pilots on
the A320 are suffering through an unreasonable and degrading drop in quality
in their schedules; we see no reason for the company doing this to them; and
we are fighting to improve their quality of life.

For a number of reasons, including a variety of stage lengths that are
simply undoable in the 737, exclusive Ted destinations, a larger fleet than
the 737, more destinations overall than the 737 has, and others, I should
have written that the A320 "has the OPPORTUNITY to be the best flying in the
LCO." There is no intent to favor one fleet over another and I regret the
unfortunate choice of words I used that gave the impression that the A320
fleet is favored. That is not the case and it will never be the case, but
when there is such a discrepancy in the quality of flying between fleets,
your LSC is obligated to make its best effort to bring up the quality of
flying on the affected fleet, and we are doing this to the best of our
abilities. If 737 flying would suffer in the manner that the A320 has, you
can safely bet that your LSC would be putting the same amount of effort into
its repair.

On the Safety front, C12 Safety Chairman Chris Sims recently put out a
message and posted flyers around Operations regarding the ORD 1 Departure
Procedure. UAL and ALPA have an EXCELLENT relationship with the ORD Air
Traffic Control personnel and this has apparently saved quite a few pilots
from receiving letters regarding the lack of aircraft clearance between UAL
departures and surrounding airport traffic.

As most of you know, in the northern quadrant of the ORD departure airspace,
there is a "3 by 5, 4 by 8" requirement. This is to ensure that ORD
Departures are above the flight corridors used by ATC for outlying airports.

Due to the summer heat and heavy load factors, more than a few aircraft have
not made the restrictions. This is NOT a problem when TRACON knows it is
coming. However, if the crew does NOT specify "Unable ORD 1 Departure," then
TRACON assumes you will comply with the altitude restrictions and COULD (and
soon will, if we do not start to modify our behavior) give the crew an
altitude deviation violation.

Further, TRACON has assured UAL and ALPA that should you state that you are
unable to comply with the ORD 1, your aircraft will NOT be unduly delayed on
your departure, but it will enable them to coordinate traffic away from your
departure path or allow them to find you a slightly different vector out of
the ORD Terminal area.

Thank you for your professionalism on this and other flight safety issues.

This coming week, your LEC Officers will be in Chicago at the
InterContinental Hotel on Michigan Avenue for the July MEC meeting.
Therefore, we will be out of telephone contact for most of the daytime hours
during the week. If you have questions or concerns, please utilize the
Committee structure to the best of your ability. If you are unsure who to
call, phone the C12 Office at (847) 297-2030 and ask Patty who to call from
the Committee Roster. However, if your problem requires an Officer's help,
please feel free to call us and we will get back to you at our earliest

As always, ALL members in good standing are welcome to attend open sessions.
The meeting will be from Monday to Friday, from 0900 to close of daily
business (1700-1900). Some sessions are closed, which is usually the case
for nearly all Monday sessions, as we receive the Financial/Bankruptcy
Briefings. However, the rest of the week is usually MOSTLY in open session.
There are always about 50 seats put out for members and the MEC meets for
breakfast in the conference room beginning at 0800.

Of particular interest to you during this meeting may be the R&I briefing
scheduled for Tuesday morning in Open Session. This presentation will
contain the current thinking and possibilities for the Distribution of the
$550M Convertible Note. The method of Note Distribution will not be decided
at this MEC meeting. We are hopeful that this presentation will provide
sufficient data to enable your Council Officers to provide you with a
similar presentation of the facts and data at our next regularly scheduled
meeting in August.

Space for the local August meeting is currently being sought by the C12
Office. We will let you know the date and location at our earliest

We hope you have an excellent weekend and look forward to seeing you at the
MEC meeting or the next LEC meeting in August.

Safety First, In All Things At All Times!
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Old 07-20-2005, 05:22 PM
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45 attendees TOTAL out of one of the largest councils in ALPA (2000+).

Was it Duane, or just apathy in general.
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