Today I had to fly the Merlin to SAT. While waiting on Mrs. Bossman the Bossman and I started talking. As usual he just starts grilling me on everything.

We got onto the topic of airspaces. He asked me what airspace I thought SAT was in. I said Class C. He bet me a 6pack of beer on it that it was Class D. I'm looking at the sectional and it still says C yet he tells me to keep reading my books. Am I missing something? Please don't tell me that it's class D up to 2500agl and 4nm of the airport then surrrounding space is C.

Secondly he asked if a transponder was required. I said that it is required when operating above or within Class C. So after some BS calls and a second 6pack of beer bet he starts asking me if a C-172 without a transponder could fly in. We argued back and forth for awhile however we never came to a conclusion. As usual the FAR's always have loopholes. Such as, "except if authorized by ATC" before the transponder req. FAR 91.216.

What say you?
Tony feel free to toss on in. I need something concrete. Hopefully in my favor. There's a 12pack of Budweiser I've been eyeballing at the store for the past 3 months I'd like to get my hands on.

 

I've never had a problem with the Luscombe I've flown a couple times within the 30nm mode c ring of a class B airport. Then again, it doesn't have an electrical system. I had a guy fly an aircraft with no transponder, and no radio for that matter into STL a few years ago for fuel at my FBO. A couple phone calls and he had the approvals he needed.

Also, a transponder is required in and above Class C but not under the shelf.

As for the boss, I think he owe's you a 12er. Everything I've found on SAT states it's class C. I don't have a sectional or AFD but it looks like the tower is 24/7 as well.

 

Don't know about SAT, but I would assume that if the sectional and afd both say it's class C, and there aren't any NOTAMs to the opposite, then your boss owes you some beer.

As for the transponder, 91.215 says that a transponder is required in and above class C up to 10,000 feet, and that it's required above 10,000 feet anywhere (excluding at and below 2,500 AGL). However, here's your loophole: 91.215(b) says "Unless otherwise authorized or directed by ATC." The 172 could get in, but it would be required to send in a request at least one hour before it wants to come in (91.215(d)(3)).

 

Are you sure about that one hour? Can't a simple radio call stating your 30miles out wanting to come in count?

The way they are argueing the airspace was that sitting on the ground you are class D. It isn't until airborn and above 2500ft agl and/or 4nm from the airport you hit C. We argued up and down the hour about it till finally we both gave up.

 

That's wrong as the AIM shows the class C as being centered on SAT. If you were at Randolph, he would be correct as that is a satellite airport and will have Class D airspace under the C, and you could stay in the pattern there and never touch C.

Spongebob

 

Well the FARs say that if the aircraft is not equipped with a transponder, "the request MUST be made at least one hour before the proposed operation." But in reality, if ATC isn't too busy, then yeah, they'll probably let you in.

 

From the AIM (Pilot/Controller Glossary):

CONTROLLED AIRSPACE- (Class C):

Generally, that airspace from the surface to 4,000 feet above the airport elevation (charted in MSL) surrounding those airports that have an operational control tower, are serviced by a radar approach control, and that have a certain number of IFR operations or passenger enplanements. Although the configuration of each Class C area is individually tailored, the airspace usually consists of a surface area with a 5 nautical mile (NM) radius, a circle with a 10NM radius that extends no lower than 1,200 feet up to 4,000 feet above the airport elevation and an outer area that is not charted. Each person must establish two-way radio communications with the ATC facility providing air traffic services prior to entering the airspace and thereafter maintain those communications while within the airspace. VFR aircraft are only separated from IFR aircraft within the airspace.

 

All the charts say SAT is Class C. The burden is on him to prove otherwise. This should be interesting.



You have references for your answers. Where are his?




.

 

Good call. He's a very very knowledgeable person. Everytime I think I have him plain as day he pulls out a book or rules or regs that predate the current ones that state what he says so I'm always looking for the sucker punch. The last one he got me on was, "What is required for an aircraft to fly VFR"? I told him, he asked if it was for all aircraft and how sure I was, we bet lunch, then he pulled out some Civil regulations that showed there were many many aircraft flying around that don't meet the current FAR regs. So now I just never know lol.

 

Perhaps, but when it comes to airspace, the CURRENT regs apply. There's no grandfather clause for C. He can talk all he wants about the old school airspace system, but it doesn't apply in the here and now!