|
Correct.
That is EMAS, which works even if the AOA probe is busted. |
Originally Posted by at6d
(Post 2785194)
Correct.
That is EMAS, which works even if the AOA probe is busted. Were you the one who tested it in Burbank? [emoji12] |
nope!
Filler |
Originally Posted by fuzzball
(Post 2783990)
Sorry, the above numbers are wrong. The ATSB loan was $40 million in 2003 and the net loss was $43 million.
So that was a $83 million deficit year (on revenue of, what 200M?) and management's hail mary was the merger. What happened next? 2004 bankruptcy, Banmiller, etc. I say again: With the merger, none of our friends from AQ would be in the left seat of an A330 deciding where they're having ramen in Osaka tonight. So please don't describe the few wise men who organized against the merger as having been fuelled by hate, they were looking two moves ahead and wanted at least one local carrier to survive. Heck, as a newish guy I sorta thought the merger made sense, but when the numbers became available there was no ignoring the facts. As for whether everyone's better off now, well, Hawaiian folks ended up with a lot more seniority than Aloha folks who had to start over in 2008. Kudos to Hawaiian for hiring so many, but when you have people who were at Aloha 20+ years starting over as year 1 FO's it’s clearly one-sided |
Originally Posted by av8tor55
(Post 2785201)
Were you the one who tested it in Burbank? [emoji12]
https://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20001223-0 |
Originally Posted by Opakapaka
(Post 2785615)
Hawaiian's later opposition to the merger had nothing to do with ATSB or losses as both airlines were bleeding. The primary reason was based on Hawaiian's opposition to Greg Brenneman and TurnWorks. Aloha wanted Brenneman. Hawaiian wanted their managers in charge of the merged airline.
As for whether everyone's better off now, well, Hawaiian folks ended up with a lot more seniority than Aloha folks who had to start over in 2008. Kudos to Hawaiian for hiring so many, but when you have people who were at Aloha 20+ years starting over as year 1 FO's it’s clearly one-sided https://newsroom.hawaiianairlines.co...around-in-2003 Exactly one airline was bleeding cash, and that's not my opinion, that's the opinion of the DOT and the SEC. If you were on the Hawaiian BOD, would you let the managers who had created a smoking crater out of a once great airline slide over and manage yours? I didn't think so. 40 year old -200s and a couple of -700s and losing 80+million to an all-new fleet and running a profit post 9/11? They'd have been sued for lack of fiduciary responsibility to protect their shareholders. Honolulu Star-Bulletin Business Scroll down to the 2003 stat: Aloha Airlines: From beginning to bankruptcy | The Honolulu Advertiser | Hawaii's Newspaper Signing out on this one. You're forcing me to relive sad memories about friends going through hard times, but I couldn't sit here and let you misinform people unfamiliar with the historical facts. |
Time to Jump ship from Hawaiian?
Jeez H. Crimey!
OK. Aloha went out of business. Guys. IM SORRY. Over Half the HAL seniority list was NOT around when that happened. I would also like to add that some of the best captains that I’ve flown with here, are former Aloha guys. Can we F-ing drop it now? It’s over. Simple math. One carrier survived, the other didn’t. 99.9% of the time, the non-surviving carriers pilots if they get jobs, get HIRED at the other carrier at the bottom. It was not a merger. Really Opakapaka... You have to go back almost 20 years to find ONE incident? Word on the street is that the FAA is considering re-naming the EMAS to “SWAMAS”. Not really an apples to apples comparison there. [/sarcasm] ;-) Come on guys, put the hard feelings down. Seriously. I love you Aloha guys, you are awesome. Remember, over half of the seniority list was not on property when all of that crap happened. LET GO... |
Originally Posted by fuzzball
(Post 2785700)
The problem with ignoring facts when you say things is that you lose all credibility. Please explain to the audience how a $77 million dollar profit can be described as "bleeding?"
https://newsroom.hawaiianairlines.co...around-in-2003 Exactly one airline was bleeding cash, and that's not my opinion, that's the opinion of the DOT and the SEC. If you were on the Hawaiian BOD, would you let the managers who had created a smoking crater out of a once great airline slide over and manage yours? I didn't think so. 40 year old -200s and a couple of -700s and losing 80+million to an all-new fleet and running a profit post 9/11? They'd have been sued for lack of fiduciary responsibility to protect their shareholders. Honolulu Star-Bulletin Business Scroll down to the 2003 stat: Aloha Airlines: From beginning to bankruptcy | The Honolulu Advertiser | Hawaii's Newspaper Signing out on this one. You're forcing me to relive sad memories about friends going through hard times, but I couldn't sit here and let you misinform people unfamiliar with the historical facts. Hawaiian most recently went into Chapter 11 in March 2003. Why would a profitable airline go into Chapter 11? Aloha’s first bankruptcy happened in December 2004. And the objection wasn’t that Zander wanted to run the combined airline, but rather Greg Brenneman who along with Gordon Bethune was instrumental in turning Continental around. In March 2003, Hawaiian Airlines filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection for the second time in its history. The airline continued its normal operations, and at the time was overdue for $4.5 million worth of payments to the pilots' pension plan. Within the company, it was suggested that the plan be terminated. We were also hiring furloughed Hawaiian pilots at Aloha. Why were they furloughed if they were so well off? And no, they don’t have a monopoly on the sad times in that period. |
Originally Posted by Hawaiian 5O
(Post 2785708)
Jeez H. Crimey!
OK. Aloha went out of business. Guys. IM SORRY. Over Half the HAL seniority list was NOT around when that happened. I would also like to add that some of the best captains that I’ve flown with here, are former Aloha guys. Can we F-ing drop it now? It’s over. Simple math. One carrier survived, the other didn’t. 99.9% of the time, the non-surviving carriers pilots if they get jobs, get HIRED at the other carrier at the bottom. It was not a merger. Really Opakapaka... You have to go back almost 20 years to find ONE incident? Word on the street is that the FAA is considering re-naming the EMAS to “SWAMAS”. Not really an apples to apples comparison there. Come on guys, put the hard feelings down. Seriously. I love you Aloha guys, you are awesome. Remember, over half of the seniority list was not on property when all of that crap happened. LET GO... Word on the street is that the FAA is considering re-naming the EMAS to “SWAMAS” I posted that link cause someone posted the BUR incident. As for the 150 AQ pilots hired since AQ’s demise I’m very happy they landed on their feet as well as I did. I know everyone of them. If you look back at my earlier posts I mentioned we can all exist. It seems some thin skinned guys got their panties a bit wet over the pic in Oak ops. We all love the airline we fly for and that I would expect. But dude if you’re gonna lay one out on me, do the same for your Bro Fuzzball too. Ok I’m exhausted. Time for a beverage 🥃. Cheers |
Originally Posted by Opakapaka
(Post 2785712)
Hawaiian most recently went into Chapter 11 in March 2003. Why would a profitable airline go into Chapter 11? Why were they furloughed if they were so well off? And no, they don’t have a monopoly on the sad times in that period. 1) That's exactly what the bankruptcy judge asked right before he, for the first time in US history, removed a sitting CEO from his position. Should you choose to avail yourself of news sources, you'll find it right there. It was publicly described as a stunt to renegotiate 767 leases with Boeing and failed, hence John Adams' removel from the company and getting sued by the SEC. 2) Because 3-1=2. 16 DC-10s at three pilots per at 6.5 crews per = 312. Same math for 767 = 208. Unless math is something else you don't believe in, 300-200=100 furloughs. I can't believe I had to sign back on to explain this. |
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