TA
 

Yes or no? First impressions.

What did I miss? Is there a new TA? Where can I see details?

I’m not sure about my yes or no yet but from the early look I think it’ll pass.

Many great improvements! Not much improvement for interisland since MDG won’t be implemented until signing+24mo. The trip rig won’t bring credit up to where it should be imo. That and the disparity between HA and DL 717 rates make me lean toward “no.”

What’s the proposed payscale?

717 gets screwed again and the 330 gets split into a B-scale operation.

It’s definitely not delta…and how are we going to recruit 300+ pilots at 20% less than spirit, frontier, and mesa? HAL having the lowest first year pay…again.

Any general rate info?

EVery fleet is roughly $20 to $25 less than delta TA. Our current min daily guarantee is 4:10 (well below industry standard). The two day pairings on the 717 are low credit with lots of legs. Increasing the min daily to 5 should've been a bare minimum for DOS. Unfortunately, we have to wait until 03/2025 to get that 5 hr minimum a day.

The 330 pax will pay roughly $20 less than delta TA, but the 330 freighter operation will pay about $15 to $20 less than the pax plane.

My thoughts exactly. The trip rig won’t do anything for interisland at all. The 330/787 and NEO pilots will pass it for sure which is probably why the 717 is getting screwed as always. They don’t need a single 717 pilots yes vote. It actually made work rules worse for the 717.

You’re comparing HAL 2027 rates to DAL 2026. HAL 2026 rates are in the $34 range lower. Not to mention all the other lacking sections.

Easy. Probably 20% of our employees have a kid in flight training somewhere right now. They are all but guaranteed jobs here. Our seniority list is already starting to look like an ad for ancestry.com. Mom/Dad pay for the ratings, then the kid can keep living at home to help with the bills after first year. Just keep adding on to the house. It's an investment.

I'm not sure how I'm going to vote yet. I'm still reading. It doesn't matter. They have the pilot feedback and there is no doubt that this will pass. Maybe not by much, but it WILL pass.

Big NO for me.

Can anyone share the pay scale?

100% NO

Inflation is a real thing, which according to the percentages, isn't completely corrected for. I didn't vote for inflation guy, I don't feel I need to suffer his consequences. Let Kai Kehele take the lower rate in my place.

But it'll pass 75/25. We trade QOL and COL to be blessed to live here. Because mountains, waves and waterfalls help pay for sh!t.

Funniest part I thought was the reference to UPS/FDX. So, our 330 "B" scale is supposedly better than the widely considered 2 best flying jobs in the World? They knew what the immediate reaction would be so threw in that reference without any supporting evidence. (every FDX/UPS pilots I know is living large.)

Less than the pros, more than the independent league,

The percentage increases are all over the place, and the only details were for 12 yr top of scale Captains at this point. (primarily 330/787 PAX Captains)

How long have you guys been in negotiations?

Amendable from July 2022

This had me ROFL, but also very true. Gonna need that extra salary to pay for the multi-generation 3-story house in Waipahu.

Wow. That was quick. Sounds to me like you guys have some leverage.

No, and the T/A shows it. I'll be voting no.

Amazon is what sped it up.

I'll be voting no as well. In my opinion, giving up the way we do premium pay is how we stayed along with the big 3. With average work rules and still lagging about 10% behind delta, we will never be able to catch up.

Especially with no "me too" language. I'd say AT LEAST 10% behind.

Was PPU what was highlighted in the memo. Now at company discretion according to yesterdays email?

Sorry to be repetitive, anyone have the chart with the rates?

To paraphrase the words of our MEC, “they are higher than FedEx”.

The union fell short in delivering everything that seemed adamant about in the last email in December.

Still lowest vacation day at 3:30 (Delta is 4:35)

Still lowest min day at 4:10 new one doesn’t kick in for TWO Years to match the competition at 5:00 (interisland will still suck)

Instead of narrowing that 9.1% pay gap, they broadened it.

401K far behind the competition.

it makes me wonder if they hit a roadblock and as history shows…we are intended to vote this down? This is not a concessionary climate, it’s not our fault the airline is mismanaged and chooses to fly empty planes to japan in hopes of it returning to pre-COVID levels some day despite analyst and data showing.

Additionally what happens when UA and AA get market rate after we vote in this deal? Before? We look like chumps.

330 Pax / 787 12 year capt / FO
03/23 - $392 / $273.62
03/24 - $407.68 / $284.56
03/25 - $423.99 / $295.95
03/26 - $440.95 / $307.78
02/27 - $454.18 / $317.02

330 Pax / 787 6 year Capt / FO
03/23 - $374.36 / $230.29
03/24 - $389.33 / $251.12
03/25 - $404.90 / $261.16
03/26 - $421.10 / $271.61
02/27 - $433.73 / $279.76

330F 12 year Capt / FO
03/23 - $376 / $262.45
03/24 - $391.04 / $272.95
03/25 - $406.68 / $283.86
03/26 - $422.95 / $295.22
02/27 - $435.64 / $304.08

330F 6 year Capt / FO
03/23 - $359.08 / $231.61
03/24 - $373.44 / $240.87
03/25 - $388.38 / $250.51
03/26 - $403.92 / $260.53
02/27 - $416.04 / $268.35


321 12 year Capt / FO
03/23 - $ 329 / $229.64
03/24 - $342.16 / $238.83
​​​​​03/25 - $355.85 / $248.38
03/26 - $370.08 / $258.32
02/27 - $381.18 / $266.06

321 6 year Capt / FO
03/23 - $314.23 / $202.68
03/24 - $326.80 / $210.79
03/25 - $339.87 / $219.22
03/26 - $353.46 / $227.98
02/27 - $364.06 / $234.82

717 12 year Capt / FO
03/23 - $283 / $197.53
03/24 - $294.32 / $205.44
03/25 - $306.09 / $213.65
03/26 - $318.33 / $222.19
02/27 - $327.88 / $228.8

717 6 year Capt / FO
03/23 - $270.27 / $174.32
03/24 - $281.08 / $181.30
03/25 - $292.32 / $188.55
03/26 - $301.01 / $196.09
02/27 - $313.13 / $201.97

There isn't much management has gotten right in the last 2+ years. Japan should have been obvious after the 5th false start. How the "leaders" aren't leaving to spend more time with family is beyond me? We were once a $60/share airline (probably a bit unrealistic) We now hover in the $11-14 range even after the Amazon deal was announced.

But hey, we can dress how we want and have wonderful parades and kids dancing with Trannies. I guess we're doing something right.

401K 16% now, 17% in a couple years. Inter island guys getting hosed in this TA. No improvements other then pay. I’m don’t fly inter island anymore, but did for years. For them I’ll be voting no

I will be no part of the A330 b scale. NO.

Too many concessions, not enough gains
 

I’m a no. I’m not sure this pos will pass

First year pay? Still $10.000 Bonus?

The fact they even did that and the union agreed on it to save $20/hr is ridiculous, particularly with the lower guarantee.

Reserve language
 

Read the reserve language carefully. The ta will bring us back to leveling. This ta is doa

3/23 $81
3/24 $84
3/25 $87
3/26 $90
1/27 $93

$10k still in effect, at company discretion, equates to about $5500 after federal and HI state income taxes.

Or you could go to frontier, spirit, JetBlue, mesa, breeze, any regional, any legacy…basically anywhere but allegiant and make 30-40% more your first year.

Well noted...... Thanks

They also are selling out the instructor jobs. Now non seniority list instructors can do virtually everything without limit. I'll pass on this one, hopefully others see the value in not giving away HA pilots jobs to the lowest bidder.

Can someone explain why we are giving away ANYTHING in this negotiating environment?

Hard no from me.

Is there a new 330 Freight Min Line guarantee?