glorifdbusdrivr

More specifically, if someone could shed some light on exactly the amount of time people at majors and LCCs are getting hired with within the last year. I know all airlines have different minimum requirements but on average what is the SIC/PIC times? Volunteering and internal work positions are great additions as well as I know the TT isn’t the only thing airlines look at. I also understand that 2020 will be completely different that this past year. Just curious thanks

rickair7777

This is my gut feel on civilian quals, in no way definitive. Also applies to the "typical" pilot, not counting any special qualifiers, connections, or extreme luck.

ULCC/LCC:

As low as 3K TT, 2K turbine time (maybe even a little lower for regional FO's).

Intangigble: They like people who they think won't leave for DL over the next few years: no degree, low/no TPIC, no degree, black marks (just enough, but not too many!), older, etc.


Mid-Tier:

5K TT, 1-2K TPIC, maybe even zero TPIC for some regional FO's.

Intangibles: Perhaps more tolerant of black marks, but again not too many. They know their hires probably won't leave after a couple years. Bonus for extra-curricular color, leadership, training, etc.


Top-Tier:

5-8K TT, 2-5K TPIC

Intangibles: Need the full package and a pretty clean record. One minor black mark is fine as a learning experience but anything more is problematic. Emphasis on a extra-curricular stuff, got to have some of that.

StallWeezy

Recently acquired 3 CJOs with majors. Spot on! Also, explains the spirit interview I had...🙄

Bahamasflyer

For the ULCC/LCC category, I'd guess you are talking Allegiant, Spirit and Frontier?

Mid-tier: JB, Alaska, Kalitta?

And top tier: All the big 6?

I think I'm close but please correct me if I'm wrong.

On a side note......do you think that in 5 years that the big 6 will relax their standards to the same level that the ULCC/LCC levels are at present day, except still requiring a 4 yr deg?

Just the massive retirements alone, barring an unforeseen black swan of course.

imthecaptainnow

[QUOTE=I think I'm close but please correct me if I'm wrong.

On a side note......do you think that in 5 years that the big 6 will relax their standards to the same level that the ULCC/LCC levels are at present day, except still requiring a 4 yr deg?

Just the massive retirements alone, barring an unforeseen black swan of course.[/QUOTE]

There isn't going to be a pilot shortage at the majors the benefits and pay are too good. You'll see the shortage at the regionals where pay and quality of life are subpar.

glorifdbusdrivr

But the majors get their pilots from the regionals and if there are no qualified regional pilots, they will start getting squeezed.

glorifdbusdrivr

They will have to. There’s no doubt that the big 6 will have to drop their minimums. I think extra curriculars will play a key role in all hiring but pilots will be able to get their foot in the door a lot sooner. It’ll probably be as noticeable as this year when all the airlines are going to need 6,000 pilots. I guess we’ll have to wait and see but it should be interesting.
Thanks for the feedback.

rickair7777

Generally, that's about right. I'm not going to name names, someone might disagree, and one person's bottom tier could very legitimately be another person's mid-tier. Top tier = Big-Six, that's not really subject to debate IMO.

Maybe sort of. The top tier will ALWAYS (in any foreseeable alternate reality) have the ability to be picky. Everybody else will have to take all comers.

What trait(s) they'll chose to be picky about is the real question...

The current emphasis on feel-good stuff like volunteering is more of an HR excursion. The HR folks came up with this idea that they could get away from the traditional pilot stereotype, but unfortunately for them the cultural roots of the traditional "right stuff" model also aligns very well with safety. You can throw a few outliers into the system, and they'll learn and be assimilated but you can't throw out the long-established pilot culture unless you want to start writing VERY large checks (Billions with a B). There are numerous available real-world case studies overseas which will tell you everything you need to know about that.

Some of the touchy-feely stuff is relevant to "good employee" but if they have a shortage of applicants with core pilot credentials, I'm pretty sure they'll drop the touchy-feely criteria very quickly. They'll likely stick to their guns on the degree, with rare exceptions for rare candidates with otherwise great resumes.

They'll still also prefer some of the traditional pilot/military officer "whole person" credentials, like leadership, athletics, etc. Cultural inertia if nothing else.

But the additional complexity for the legacies is staffing their regional flying... they may have to start giving mainline seniority numbers to attract the flies. AA mainline pilots are already complaining about what's flowing up to them...

galaxy flyer

What’s the ratio now, about 40%/60%, civil and military. There’s lots, I mean 1,000s, of pilots on the sidelines that could and will apply—corporate, former regional pilots who left and could come back, others, so not running out especially as pay and certainty of future career is established.

All the services are max’ing out training pipeline, so that’s the source in 8-10 years.

Excargodog

Max’ing out the training pipeline still won’t make it what it once was. Too many bases closed by BRAC, too much airspace given up, too many squadrons decommissioned, too few total aircraft with too much acquisition expense and maintenance cost. And even much if that reduced training capability infrastructure now being shared with allies who don’t have the airspace, ranges, or expertise to do their own training in Europe.

The average age of USAF aircraft is 29 years. The number of flight hours per pilot per year for active flyers is a fraction of what it was when currently retiring major airline pilots served.