USMCFLYR

Cdouglas -

What are the state pay scales for the air attack pilots? Is there a website or some other source of info for the differences in the tanker pilots and the air attack pilots? Sounds like maybe the tanker pilots are the ones actually dropping the water/retartdent and the air attack pilots are the airborne controllers (sort of like FACs or FAC(A)s?) Do you see amy former military guys coming through the ranks or is it mainly from the fire fighter industry?

USMCFLYR

stinsonjr

Do they have SEATS, and how competitive is that?

cdouglas162

The Air Attacks primary function is to act as an airborne controller, while the tankers drop the fire retardent. It is hard to quote you a pay scale due to the different contract lengths. Bases in northern CA have the shorter contracts and the length increases as you work your way south. The southern most bases go almost year around. We are union so everyone hired has to start off in the OV-10 and wait for their chance to bid on a tanker seat (some never do, they stay in the OV their entire career ). Tanker pay is more than Air Attack pay. You can live on both salaries comfortably. As for former military, we do have a couple that flew the OV-10 in the Marines before they retired the aircraft, but the majority of our pilots have come through the tanker industry ranks. Like i said it is very competitive and i last time i checked there were over 700 resumes sitting in the office. As for SEATS all are private operators contracted with the BLM. There are several SEAT operators out there. Most operate 802s. There is also alot of competition for these positions. Everyone i know who has gotten on flying an 802 has a couple thousand hours tail wheel time and a couple thousand hours spraying (AG work).

USMCFLYR

cdouglas -

Thanks for the info. I would have guessed that it was actually the other way around - that the air attack coordination guys would be the more senior pilots. It doesn't surprised me at all that you have a few former Marine OV-10 pilots out there. I was thinking that the former military guys would met the low level and **bombing** experience requirements and working a CAS stack can't be to much different from working the fire stack; I'm sure both have similar skill sets.

USMCFLYR

fallujahff

I've heard (and this may or may not be true) that you need to be Fire fighter I and II certified to land one of these jobs--not hard to do but just another hurdle--

flyinglow

I was hoping that at least having a reseme and application on file is at least
a little toe wedged in the door?
Thanks again, for all of the info you have been a lot of help.

SkyHigh

I spent several summers flying for contractors who did smokejumper, cargo, pax and air attack work. California Department of Forestry is very difficult to get on with. The forest service is also hard to get a flying job. Part 135 tanker, air attack and smokejumper gigs are much easier to get and pay relatively the same. However they move all over the country.

I spent my summers living out of a suitcase and moving along with the fire season. I would start out the spring in Alaska and would end up in Texas or the southwest in the late fall.

It was a hugely fun job but the transient nature got old. At the time one big requirement for getting a job as a tanker pilot was to have a commercial pilots license, A&P and a DUI. They did not want guys using them as time builders havening a DUI meant that you would be around for a long time. Many of them drank a lot and they liked people who did the same. A big advantage of being a tanker pilot was that at quitting time there was no chance of any emergency night flying. As soon as they were released they popped open beers and broke open whiskey bottles.

It was common for a tanker pilot to fly less than 180 hours a year. They rarely flew at night and never went IFR.

Skyhigh

flyinglow

Thanks for the info!

cdouglas162

SkyHigh-
I flew tankers on Forest Service contracts (including AK) for 7 years, and i have never KNOWN ANYONE to get hired BECAUSE they have had a DUI. Never has this been a prerequisite with the operators (and i know all of them). So i have to say this is COMPLETE B.S, and i do not appreciate you portraying tanker industry pilots as partying drunks. As for time building there has not been a problem with that the last 10 years or so due to the required insurance hour minimums. Most new hires who do not hire on for the right reasons usually to not make it more than a day or two when the decide they to not like to fuel, oil, and wash a large place 4-5 times a day. Also tankers occasionally fly IFR when ferrying from base to base. It is very common on a fire dispatch to request a special to get out. Tankers do not operate under Part 135...We are part 91.

SkyHigh

I did not fly tankers. I was a part 135 contractor that flew contracts for smokejumper, point to point and air attack operations. I was carded at three different companies over 4 years.

As far as the DUI being a stated requirement I am sure that they do not have that posted on their web site. However, I did hang out with tanker guys and that is what they told me. The guys I knew did drink a lot. They also were low time. One pilot had 16 years as captain in the same plane and had less than 2500 hours of total time.

I did know them to fly special VFR to get out of smoke obscured airports however as far as hard IFR to an ILS they told me that it was close to a death sentence for a tanker guy. The planes were scant on instruments as well.

My experience as a fire pilot is more than ten years old so maybe things have changed and maybe not. My experiences may differ from others but that is what I remember.

SKyHigh