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Old 08-09-2006, 01:14 PM
  #11  
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CWU - you should take some time to let those organizations know that they do not relate. I do not think they take polls to see how effective the advertisinig is. I am 32, grew up with atari, and have had every game system since.(I have an X360 now) I can understand what you are saying because my father was a pilot. There are plenty of us who would be viewed as "cool" by the young ones today. I think you will be surprised when you get your first flying job.


By the way, video games are great for hand eye cordination. My airline gives a cog test(computer, hand eye cord. and multi tasking) It was just another game for me.
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Old 08-15-2006, 06:51 PM
  #12  
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CWU - you should take some time to let those organizations know that they do not relate. I do not think they take polls to see how effective the advertisinig is.
Thanks for the suggestion.
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Old 08-15-2006, 11:58 PM
  #13  
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As for Pilots being cool:



Remember, how many pilots it takes to screw in a light bulb?







One








To hold it up, while the world revolves around him.
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Old 08-30-2006, 01:36 PM
  #14  
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I know this thread has been asleep for a little while but, I felt I had some insight into it.

First the issue of cost. It's pretty expensive to be a young person these days, in both money and time. Young people these days are required to have more just to get by than they did 30 years ago. First there's the issue of the car. Now granted plenty of people get by on beaters, and hey maybe they even get to work reliably with them. But even if they are paid off, and they don't break too often, that car still needs $3.00/gal gas, and in pretty much every state it needs some rather pricey insurance just to keep the driver from being arrested. (made pricier due to the age of the driver) Cost of living in general is going through the roof, Rent here in Cleveland averages $500 for a 1 bedroom place in a mediocre neighborhood and that doesn’t include utilities. I can count on one hand the amount of friends I know who don't work two jobs just to get by. And I can name maybe two who actually work a "normal" schedule to get by. Kids don't get 40hr. Monday-Friday 9-5, even coming out of school anymore. Most of my friends are pushing 30 and they don't see hours like that.

You couple that with the societal pressure to live on your own and "do well" which drives even people getting by to waste more of their time on a second job for any spending money (which they don't have a lot of time to spend), and you end up with a very sporadic amount of free time for younger people to enjoy. And a good portion of that has to be taken up with the basics. House keeping, Sleep, or just sitting dazed for an hour after being on your feet in a kitchen or similar for +10 hours straight.

What's left for leisure really needs to be cost effective. Sure they could get a pilots license and maybe rent a plane on a day off (if they get lucky enough to know their schedule every week and the weather is nice.) But that initial investment in the license is a pretty tall wall, Then you think about that upwards of $100/hr just to rent a 152 or 172 and you realize for $35 you can get a videogame that will last you 30+ hours if it's good, or having some friends over for Beer/food which will fill your evening and maybe cost $20 (less if everyone kicks in) compared to $100 for one hour of doing something in a plane. It just doesn’t make much economic sense for a casual interest to a young person.

On the Pro side, you have 2nd and 3rd gen. pilot’s kids at the big schools all clean cut and silver spooned. That doesn’t really invite diversity, or much individuality (something highly valued these days.) Just a big pack of Maverick and Iceman wanabees making life hard for anyone who doesn’t match the “Clean cut airline captain” cookie cutter. Even if they don’t want to be airline captains. The majority of 1st gens get frustrated and alienated by the people around them and jump majors within a year or two.

But that’s just my perspective as a young person living in a working middle class area.
I’m sure it’s different elsewhere.
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Old 08-30-2006, 02:23 PM
  #15  
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But that’s just my perspective as a young person living in a working middle class area.
I’m sure it’s different elsewhere.
I like it.
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Old 08-30-2006, 06:43 PM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by mazaite View Post
I know this thread has been asleep for a little while but, I felt I had some insight into it.

First the issue of cost. It's pretty expensive to be a young person these days, in both money and time. Young people these days are required to have more just to get by than they did 30 years ago. First there's the issue of the car. Now granted plenty of people get by on beaters, and hey maybe they even get to work reliably with them. But even if they are paid off, and they don't break too often, that car still needs $3.00/gal gas, and in pretty much every state it needs some rather pricey insurance just to keep the driver from being arrested. (made pricier due to the age of the driver) Cost of living in general is going through the roof, Rent here in Cleveland averages $500 for a 1 bedroom place in a mediocre neighborhood and that doesn’t include utilities. I can count on one hand the amount of friends I know who don't work two jobs just to get by. And I can name maybe two who actually work a "normal" schedule to get by. Kids don't get 40hr. Monday-Friday 9-5, even coming out of school anymore. Most of my friends are pushing 30 and they don't see hours like that.

You couple that with the societal pressure to live on your own and "do well" which drives even people getting by to waste more of their time on a second job for any spending money (which they don't have a lot of time to spend), and you end up with a very sporadic amount of free time for younger people to enjoy. And a good portion of that has to be taken up with the basics. House keeping, Sleep, or just sitting dazed for an hour after being on your feet in a kitchen or similar for +10 hours straight.

What's left for leisure really needs to be cost effective. Sure they could get a pilots license and maybe rent a plane on a day off (if they get lucky enough to know their schedule every week and the weather is nice.) But that initial investment in the license is a pretty tall wall, Then you think about that upwards of $100/hr just to rent a 152 or 172 and you realize for $35 you can get a videogame that will last you 30+ hours if it's good, or having some friends over for Beer/food which will fill your evening and maybe cost $20 (less if everyone kicks in) compared to $100 for one hour of doing something in a plane. It just doesn’t make much economic sense for a casual interest to a young person.

On the Pro side, you have 2nd and 3rd gen. pilot’s kids at the big schools all clean cut and silver spooned. That doesn’t really invite diversity, or much individuality (something highly valued these days.) Just a big pack of Maverick and Iceman wanabees making life hard for anyone who doesn’t match the “Clean cut airline captain” cookie cutter. Even if they don’t want to be airline captains. The majority of 1st gens get frustrated and alienated by the people around them and jump majors within a year or two.

But that’s just my perspective as a young person living in a working middle class area.
I’m sure it’s different elsewhere.
Very insightful and informative. Just imagine adding a few kids into that picture.

It is my position that considering a regional as a career position is plain folly for most people. If you are going to put up a significant investment in education and training then it should be for something considerable.

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Old 11-27-2006, 01:36 AM
  #17  
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I agee with ERJ. I am a 22 yr old "young" pilot. I don't know how I fell in love with aviation as no one in my family was a pilot. I did my research and decided it was the career I wanted from I was still in middle school...little did I know what a ride I was really in for. For me that ride is only just beginning and getting paid poverty wages after taking out $125,000 in loans to pay for training and a degree is ridiculous. If less people get into it for whatever reasons then the supply becomes limited and the airlines will have to provide an incentive to bring people back. Raising starting pay, offering cadet programs, and creating a more appealing look to younger generations may all be part of that process.
I hate to sound selfish here, but it really hurts me to think that I expended so much time and resources to reap such little return. This is certainly a career that shouldn't be entered for the financial benefit, and if I didn't truly love what I do then I certainly wouldn't be sticking around to weather the eternal storm. It is a shame that aviation has become so cost-prohibitive. I love the joy of flight, and will sieze any opportunity to share it whenever possibly. As a whole, however, the industry has become a product of what we (those in it) have made it. In a quest to undersell the competition we have cheapened the career and dulled the romance. The corporates have slashed pay, and the workers have accepted it as "the norm." Not only do pilots accept these poverty wages, but some are even willing to pay for the "privilege" of being payed sub-poverty wages.
Armed with this knowledge of the unstable state of the industry, what self-respecting young person is willingly going to make the investments that so many of us have made on a career that might not even be around to offer a sound pension? Only those that somehow discover that this is the only career worth having, and no matter the uncertainty and costs it is worth the pursuit. Hence pilots like ERJ and myself rise from the mire only to wallow in the sty with the hopes of one day being able to have our cake and eat it too.
 
Old 11-28-2006, 02:19 PM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by TimboEman View Post
It is a shame that aviation has become so cost-prohibitive.
I think it's like medical care. Adding the layers of insurance, lawsuits, lawyers, etc. raises the cost. Those layers don't produce or 'do' anything. They have their place, but IMHO they're out of control. A huge part of the cost of every flight is for liability when you consider product liability as well as high insurance for students, etc.

And of course the previously mentioned high starting costs of (medical/flight) school plays a part.

I got my Uncle Sam to pay for my flying and 60% of my training through the GI Bill. 6 years Army Guard got me college and my Private, 8 years active Air Force got me a plane (182) and all the training up to CFI/II.

I start with a regional in Jan 2007.

Again, the medical school analogy (for me at least). It's taken a long time to get here. I got my CFI ticket about a week before Sep 11 2001. We know where the industry went from there.

My hope is that everyone who has stuck with it and is now in a position to benefit from a shortage will get the rewards.
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Old 11-28-2006, 03:02 PM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by GauleyPilot View Post
From what I have heard listening to today's teenagers, a great number of them have no ambitions for the future. They care to talk more about "hanging out" that night rather than something happening ten years down the road. I sense that they feel shut out from the opportunities of past generations, and I feel in large part they are right.
I think about this frequently. I'm only 20 years old, but I do wish I had worked harder in high school and right now in college. I was not a bad student, but pretty average. I made A's in subjects I like, B's in ones I was ambivalent about, and C's in ones I disliked. When I did choose to apply myself, the results were great. I suppose it is better to gain wisdom eventually rather than never, but when I look back at myself 5 or even 2 years ago, I cringe at who I was and what I thought was important. Knowing what I know now, I would have done things so much differently.

It is true that the opportunities that existed for past generations are harder to get to today. I live in metro Atlanta, and every student in high school here wants to go to UGA. Back in the 70's, successfully filling out an application was the admission criteria. Today, the average freshman GPA is a 3.7. Average does not cut it anymore.

I have to accept that my academic choices could preclude me from having a successful aviation career or a USAF flight slot, even though I am punctual and a hard worker. I take it in stride and try to focus on what I can change, and learn from the past, not dwell in it.
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Old 11-29-2006, 08:48 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by bubblemonkey View Post
I have to accept that my academic choices could preclude me from having a successful aviation career or a USAF flight slot, even though I am punctual and a hard worker. I take it in stride and try to focus on what I can change, and learn from the past, not dwell in it.
You're right, you can't change the past, and this gives you a great story to tell in interviews.
I have met many people in my aviation journey, and I would dare to say that grades will not make or break you. I've seen successful pilots on both ends of the spectrum. Yes employers want someone that is going to apply themself and not wash out of training, but from my experiences, they are looking for personality. Be a likeable person and apply yourself to your ambition and I don't think you will have many problems.

Good luck on your pursuits, and I'm sure I'll see you somewhere on the flightline soon enough.
 

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