FedEx Changing Interview Process
 

I spoke with a person above the CP. It was explained to me that FedEx pilot hiring has been turned over to the legal department for evaluation, which resulted in closing the pilot interview process on the website. This resulted from a case that involves a lawsuit filed against FedEx. One of the requirements for being a courier with FedEx was the ability to read a map (duh). The person who applied for the job did not meet this qualification and therefore was not hired. A lawsuit was filed and FedEx lost. Now FedEx legal is evaluating the hiring process of pilots. I was told that we are losing some really great people because of the difficulty of the test (evidently approximately 70% are failing the exam). I expect that the exam will change to meet realistic requirements and the application process will open again very soon. Once a pilot fails any portion of the interview process, they have to wait a year to reapply. It's a good thing that the courier didn't apply for a pilot position...he would probably be in 727 training right now.

I didn't think anybody passed that test.

I'm curious about the new exam for pilots. Does it test map reading? Why such a high failure rate? I must be missing something.

Not sure whether there will be a new exam or not. Legal took over to double check to see if there were any loop holes and the possibility of a lawsuit from a pilot who is expected to know how to fly an approach using Lido but can't. Stay tuned.

The test is gunning down some great applicants. It's a shame that it's come to this. And for those of you who are unaware it is a new test, not the old one that didn't mean anything and had sylogisms and vocab on it. The new test tests your ability to be an aeronautical engineer/engine manufacturer.

Another failed attempt at reinventing the wheel.

I stayed at a holiday in express last night.....

Maybe that would help (and I would need all the help I can get)

Maps? Isn't that what the magenta line is for?

Hope it gets worked out and my phone rings.:cool:

That's great news

The rumor I heard (from a LCA) was legal was too involved with hiring a few months ago!!!

So I want to say THANK YOU to Pinnacle for making me take the online CBT program for LIDO, and making me use the charts for quite a while. Who said Frank was full of S--- ?

LIDO, Jepp, NOS...I can raed (spelled wrong purposely)!

A grade school teacher was asking students what their parents did for a living. "Tim, you be first," she said. "What does your mother do all day?"

Tim stood up and proudly said, "She's a doctor."

"That's wonderful. How about you, Amie?"

Amie shyly stood up, scuffed her feet and said, "My father is a mailman."

"Thank you, Amie," said the teacher. "What about your father, Billy?"

Billy proudly stood up and announced, "My daddy murders people, steals from them, and drinks."

The teacher was aghast and promptly changed the subject to geography. Later that day she went to Billy's house and rang the bell. Billy's father answered the door. The teacher explained what his son had said and asked if there might be some logical explanation.

Billy's father said, "I'm actually an attorney. But how can I explain a thing like that to a seven-year-old?"

That is damn funny!

Who can't read Lido?

The paper charts are easy to read, it's knowing that the textual description of the procedure is on a whole different page that makes them such a pain.

5 charts for arrival, good grief:

1. STAR pictorial
2. STAR textual description
3. ILS
4. Airport diagram
5. parking chart with stand #'s

The FAA would probably tell me I needed to have at least one more plate out, such as the airport notes chart(s). The colors are nice, though.

FWIW there is nothing LIDO on the test. I think that may have been some sarcasm.

They can keep the dam test the way it is, but put it at the end of the process instead of the beginning. My goodness, we've made passing an astronaut test the single most important aspect of getting hired here. Someone could be a great dude/dudette, fantastic pilot, tons of experience, and with all the qualifications in the world but will never get to demonstrate that to an interviewer if they aren't first and foremost an excellent test taker. Who came up with this genius idea?

Do the sim first, pass that and you go to the HR part of the interview. Throw the test in at the end and just use the score as a factor in the decision whether to hire or not. Not the only factor.

Here's the deal...
 

If you want to tackle the threat, you have to know the threat. Too many of you are talking around this without really knowing what the hell you are facing.

The threat is the cogscreen test. It was developed by Gary Kay, PhD. The test FedEx bought has been used for years by Delta and they have had similar attrition over its history.

I majored in aviation management, not medicine, and I have no PhD at the end of my name. That said, I have 10 years of F15 instructor experience that told me predicting pilot success in a challenging curriculum is very very tough. Kudos to the egg heads who tried to quantify those magic traits, but I tend to scoff a lot of the predictors. Motivation, effort, character, and courage are all required in some syllabi and I"m not sure any test can ever encapsulate those traits. There may be some solid data out there that indicates such a screen is an accurate predictor of success in the training and line environment, but I am doubtful. The Air Force has used the TBATs and some other measurements over the years trying to nail it down too, yet there is still attrition in OTS, flight screening, and SUPT.

So--back to the candidates--what should they do? First--go to these links:

cogres.com (to get the info about who made the threat and what they are trying to do)

cogscreen.com (to see sample tests and get an idea on what you will face)

I discussed purchasing the test for Delta candidates last year and was rebuffed, but was told by Dr Kay that prep would not matter as repeated attempts do not change the test scores . So I pointed out that there would be zero impact in letting me administer the test thus eliminating some "test anxiety" the clients typically face in the interview. He didn't buy the argument, and didn't sell me the test. He did tell me, however, FedEx was about to start using it and in that regard he was 100% correct.

Here's my take. Back in the mid 90s, some ********er brought a copy of DOOM to the squadron for us to use on our pentium 1 computers. I bought my own copy, got addicted, and wasted hours of time better spent chasing my wife staying up late trying to blast aliens and advance to the next level. I slowly built up the hand/eye/computer interface skills and got familiar with the program, and advanced over and over through the various challenges. What required thought at first later became instinctive muscle memory on the keyboard and mouse. I also took the ACT/SAT practice tests, and I'm not sure if they ADDED to my score when the real thing came but they sure made me more comfortable with the actual tests.

So--wanna win at the new game? Analyze the threat, and practice practice practice. But at least know what you are facing and prepare properly.

That said--it can be done. At least 60 pilots have been hired this year, meaning its not impossible. Would I like the test to go? Sure--as I think its probably not the best yardstick. However, I cannot fault any organization for trying to find a way to eliminate problem employees before they show up, and I'm glad I don't have their job. I just think this little tool is probably not nearly as valuable as the academia experts claim that it is... And I am pretty confident that I have enough data points to show my team knows a little about pilot hiring...

Back in the Stone Age, employers used the MMPI. Real toughies like "I am sometimes possessed by demons" (yes or no). :rolleyes:

The MMPI is awesome! I've always answered "yes" to the demon possession question. Always got the job, too.

Years ago, however, the HR flunkie wrote on my resume "Pt" and "Pd." Later, after I became a successful lawyer, I decided to look this up and found that Pt stands for Psychastenia and Pd stands for Psychopathic Deviate. Maybe I should tell the Bar Association about my little problems. ;)

Having taken the Delta Cog Test in a previous life and knowing that Delta and its wholly owned regionals used the test for years with no where near a 70% bust rate I find the 70% number a little suspect.

My understanding of the test was that it basically measures your abilty to do 2 things at once. Every time you text and drive you basically take the Cog test.

Met a demon once. He was possessed by a lawyer. :p
Welcome to Instant Rimshot

What problems?

Albie,
Excellent post, however I strongly disagree with you on one major point. The Cogscreen test at D was/ is a big eliminator. After several of my neighbors tanked it, I bought the practice time.

I did ok for accuracy on the first practice, but was slow. Accuracy and speed improved markedly on the 2nd practice. The actual interview cogscreen was slightly different but not a game-changer due to the practice. All of the guys who were unsuccessful went and bought the practice, and successfully reinterviewed in 6 months.

I know, I know, you shouldn't have to buy time for an interview, but do you want the job or not ? Many of the gamblers lost 6 months of seniority and still had to buy the practice..........also, the Emerald Coast interview prep was invaluable. ;)

Regards,
BG

Isn't that his other GIG? Great place and time for an advertisement. Hell, I will do it if the time and opportunity ever arise!

BG

My point in bold was THEY were saying scores dont improve. I am confident repeated practice on anything typically improves the score, including this kind of test. If you were disagreeing that the screen didn't eliminate some pilots, I thought I pointed out both companies had significant attrition. In either case, always enjoy your two company perspective and hope you are having a blast.

Ablie gave some good links for some gouge. Here is another one. There is a lot of info out there. This test was originally developed to make sure people with neurological issues could continue to fly. It has morphed into a discriminator. I'm with some other posters...this shouldn't be a pass/fail test. It should be one factor weighed against the others. It isn't like we're hand flying approaches to 50' or flying in the Nam!

Joint Health Command

Albie,

I should have said that I disagreed with THEM, most that I know were much more successful after practice. And, the test certainly was an eliminator.
Living the Dream, Gear Monkey,:D
BG

I know four guys that interviewed, all passed and have started training. Pretty sharp guys, but none of them were rocket scientists. I seriously doubt the 70% figure as well.

One thing they all had in common, they did sim prep and interview prep with Emerald Coast. No, I don't work there or get a referral bonus. Just stating a fact.

Cause it was measuring honesty! ;)

I know of at least 6 guys from a Supplemental 121 Carrier that have gotten shot down by FedEx, ALL with the MD-11 time they desperately want.
3 in the testing portion described and 3 in the second round (panel/SBI/Sim).
And as they don't say WHY one wasn't hired, hard to pinpoint exactly what portion the above got shot down for.
But with 10,000+ applications on file I guess they can, and are, very picky.

Albie, how to practice?

Is this the answer? Does Emerald Coast offer computer testing akin to the cogress?

You're right, Albie, this reminds me a lot of the BATT testing when I was almost done with pilot training. We were being used to establish a baseline of scores for their study. You're right about another thing too, and that is these tests can't measure motivation or drive.

We don't offer test prep, because the info is out there for free. Get through the test and we can help you put your best foot forward.

The point is there are plenty of cog screen/battery tests out there you can practice, and the stuff guys used to prep for Delta interviews all those years--while slightly different--should get you in the ballpark. Hit the standard airline gouge websites and you should find a bunch of sample tests and info.

Generally speaking--mil guys who are used to standardized tests seem to average slightly better, which I attribute more to testmanship and test experience than anything else. However, there have been some military casualties too.

The actual failure rate, as I understand it from the folks actually in the know is 55% to 60%. Still seems something is wrong. But, it's probably just the fact that the gouge was not out yet.

Lots of speculation present, from percentage of "test failures," to whether anything will change based on past performance. However, if the testing/interviewing process is indeed changed from its first iteration, I sure hope those who failed the testing portion--the very first step--get a chance for a "do over." And without having to wait a year to re-apply.

Notional Management Explanation--"Oh woops folks, we didn't have it quite right the first time. Sorry about that whole "YOU FAILED" thing. But--not to worry-- we REALLY have it together now. So those of you who were NOT the most highly-qualified to be interviewed, NOW get a fighting chance at passing the previously-heinous test." :rolleyes:

The important thing to remember--follow the money. Anybody have a ballpark figure on what the "new & improved" interview website/testing programs are costing the company? And who profits from those? I'm all for progress, when it is, in fact, progress.

FEDEX needs to get this process right by 2013 --- because it looks like that's when the laws of pilot supply and demand won't be so strongly in our favor.

************************************************** **

I recall taking a computerized test during USAF flight screening in the mid 80s...you were placed in a little kiosk for a few minutes of warm up and then the test.

It wasn't going to be used to determine success or failure in that course, but supposedly used for baseline data, and then your performance was tracked during UPT.

I believe the AF ultimately decided the only way to see how well a person flys was to actually put them in an acft for a few hours (...something aerobatic, spinnable and flying overhead patterns preferred)--- and that's why the Flight Screening Program still exists 25 yrs later.

For a USAF guy, I'd want to look at his FEF (...Flight Evaluation Folder), lots of solid data in there --- I imagine the other mil guys could produce something similar, but civilian check-ride documentation wouldn't be as detailed.

I agree with a previous poster --- sure, use written tests if you want --- but make it just one aspect of a comprehensive interview process (...sim, interview, SBI etc) which looks at total performance across all areas.

I imagine someone at FEDEX spent some $$ on this testing and putting it "up front" during the process helps justify that expenditure.

...but the clock is still ticking towards 2013.

Where? The first link you had takes me to the company website, which as you suggest, has no interest in helping me prep for their test. And the second won't give access.

Google has led me to a few free prep sites, but no idea if they are the same thing. Anything you'd recommend? Heck, it's not that I mind paying, I just want to prep the right way.

Thanks

Albief15...your entire post was made invalid when you maintained that you were shooting 'Aliens' in the game 'DOOM'.

Anybody who has actually played the game knows that you play an astronaut shooting 'Demons from Hell'.

;-)

I guess that you never played the game then. You are actually a "Space Marine" shooting Demons from Hell, not an astronaut.:p

I love the chain gun dance....

Kinda makes you want to give up, don't it? And they worry about a pilot shortage... yeah..

Since when do you have to be a member of MENSA to be a pilot? What about "Have you ever failed a checkride" or "How many type ratings do you hold" as a better way to assess this skill and competency of a potential pilot??

Can't say I've ever seen one...at least not internationally (or Memphis for that matter.)