Horizon Pathway Program Timeline
 

How long is the prediction from a new hire to alaska?

It depends on a lot. I have a few friends that are expecting to go by the end of the year. They’ve been here since 2015ish I think. But with the new hour requirements, it really depends on the airplane you’re flying and how quickly you hold a line. 2000 hrs and 1000 pic with the company is a big ask if you’re flying 20-30 hours a month on reserve. I know some people are lobbying to adjust the requirement to include cycles instead of hours on the Q since so many of our legs are 1 hour or less.

Conservatively at least 5 years.

Why in the hell would anyone want to flow to Alaska? I wish I had been lucky enough to work at horizon so I could have seen these muppets in action so that I could add Alaska to my never ever ever ever lost

So even if nobody else calls we should stay at our regional because Alaska is so horrible? Horizon isn't that bad, maybe you could flow down if you think it's better

The Pathways program worked pretty well for the first twenty or thirty pilots who went through the program. It is seniority-based, it is NOT a flow-through, and the company has recently increased the amount of PIC and Part 121 time required to move on to Alaska. As Snacky indicated, you'll probably be spending at least five years at Horizon before you can get on with Alaska.

For this reason, many of the Pathways pilots view it as a backup plan. it''s ironic that many of our former pilots are now working for Delta.

Maybe I will.. then at least I could fly longer routes in the 175 instead of flying Seattle to Portland to San Fransisco to Portland in a 321..

To be clear, the Part 121 time requirement is QX time. I came here with ~2000 Part 121, and now I need ANOTHER 2000, and I'm a line holder flying 350 hours per year.


1000 PIC QX for a total of 2000 QX.

Punished for my age.
Punished for my experience.
Punished for flying their old airplane.

But...you CAN keep your HHonors points from the HGI in Pasco.

Yeah, I hear you. I've been punished for my age, punished for my experience, and punished for my extremely bad timing (hired just prior to 9/11).

I don't think the 2000 hours of Part 121 time and 1000 hours Part 121 PIC is a bad idea overall, BUT the Pathways program should credit previous Part 121 time and/or significant military, corporate, or Part 135 experience. Requiring that the pilot have 2000 hours at Horizon is just a blatant attempt to keep people at Horizon for 5-7 years. Also, I've heard that Alaska won't take Horizon pilots that apply OUTSIDE the Pathways program.

As usual, Horizon management just ignored any input from the union or the pilot group.

I've chosen NOT to participate in the Pathways program, even though I meet the minimums. I would prefer to make my own choice with respect to my next job (as in , the first interesting opportunity that comes up). The changes to the Pathways program really bite for the guys and gals that want to go to Alaska, however. Many of our pilots live in the Pacific Northwest and want to stay here for their families.

You’re a lineholder and you only fly 350 hours per year?

Our CP said pilots with lots of outside time can still apply externally

A typical month (for me) is 70+ hours credit and 40+ hours block. And THAT block is so inefficient and "un-commutable" that I drop trips to avoid single days off which, while in base, are not at home.

...and and and...and I'm one of the few lineholders in my class. Easily half of the guys are still sitting reserve. Heard on our group chat from one who hasn't flown in over a month. Not an unusual story.

Stinger, are you a captain or an FO? I'm a mid-level line holder on the captain side (Q400) and I'm flying my tail off. I've been tempted to bid reserve just to get some time off, but this experiment ended badly the last time. When the company is short-staffed the reserves often end up working MORE than the line holders, and with really bad schedules (numerous circadian swaps and extensions).

Reserve captains in the Q400 in Portland: How much are you flying? Thanks!

Awwweeee waaaa waaaa. Suck it up butter cup. I’m so sorry your 6 figure income isnt enough for you. You make more on a 1 hour Seattle to Portland than a 175 pilot will make on a Seattle to Milwaukee.

I have the same question.

And apparently I don't know how to use the thread quoting thingies. Hmm...

I’m a Q400 captain in Portland and I’m hardly used. Also not really on topic but I thought I’d throw this out there... a friend of mine who has been here less than 2 years was just awarded the jet in Portland AS A CAPTAIN!! Hopefully we see that Portland jet base open soon and actually see some movement on the captain side of the Q. In the last year I’ve been sitting reserve with almost no movement on the seniority list.

In all honesty though I don’t feel like I can complain. I love my job and I’ve had tons of time off. Reserve isn’t bad at all while living in base. Also I feel like it’s this way right now but as we all know this can all change in a month. I’m the type that tries to come to work, enjoy myself while I’m here, and be thankful that I get to be one of the lucky few to do this job. I definitely have more to be thankful for than to complain about.

Fake news.

It can work if you're a minority and/or female or have tons of mil time. Not trying to start anything but those are the only people I've seen it work for. If you're part of the 95% of us you're gonna be waiting.

Yeah but I like the beer in Milwaukee. It’s far better than the expensive garbage served at the Seattle airport Hilton for 31 hours.

What? You don't like having 55 choices of beer, but all of them IPAs?

christ ain't that the truth

Man, I almost spit out my coffee reading this...

Sometimes having one of the US largest hopps production locales has its downside.

Haha, yes I agree very funny

I’m a Q captain in PDX on airport reserve. Average about 20 hours a month or so. After the summer of 2017 debacle, the company went fat for Q crews.

How long do you anticipate being on airport reserve? Im decided on taking the immediate upgrade in the Q or holding out for the jet.

If you absolutely cannot commute, then upgrade to the Q, if you don't mind SEA or PAE, do the jet. If you're in Seattle already, do the jet. If you like flying, do the jet. Jet guys are flying more.....for now. I expect things on the jet to be way more fluid, jet guys with my seniority are holding lines. I'll probably be on airport for the foreseeable future. Things are pretty stagnant on the Q.

7 pathways pilots going to the July class. About 15 pilots were "ineligible due to lack of PIC"

There is pretty much no one left who has 1000 PIC, so unless that policy changes no one is going for a while.

So much for “striving for 50%”

I looked at the seniority of the first few people who were bypassed for lack of PIC time on the latest pathway update. They would have needed to average less than 38 hours per month to be bypassed. So I averaged my hours and found out that I've averaged 35 hours per month since coming to Horizon.

So that would give you 4 years and 9 months to flow to Alaska.

What I wonder is to what extent is this going to slow the whole thing down once the people start to get the hours. It seems possible that a bunch of people will become eligible at the same time.

Anyone in the 5 year range has spent at least half of that time or more on reserve.

And once all of the now seniority elegible Pathway guys get their 1000 PIC, the goal post will be moved again.

The sim instructors are all getting hosed...The company will only credit them about 250-300 hours per year in the sim...reneging on the 5+ credits per day they promised them.

No surprise there. I can only imagine the bonus Hornibrook got for suckering pilots to QX with the Pathway program.

The net results of the time requirement just might be lots of pilots who end up not being at Horizon or Alaska. They can’t keep people someplace with time requirements.

None of the legacies have any difficulty finding well qualified applicants. The difficulty is keeping the regional's staffed. To the extent flow programs do that they are seen as a good thing by management. The slower they can manage to keep that flow the more they like it.

Taken from the Alaska thread
 

Below is a list of retirements by year at Alaska posted by someone on the Alaska forum. I thought it was relevant.





This is current as of the Aug 2019 seniority list:

Pilots on property: 3004

2019- 12 (5 have retired since Aug)
2020- 34
2021- 45
2022- 55
2023- 56
2024- 64
2025- 89
2026- 74
2027- 99
2028- 79
2029- 107

Total retirements in the next 10 years: 709
Seniority gain for a new hire today over the next 10 years: 23.6%
Total retirements in the next 5 years: 261
Seniority gain for a new hire today over the next 5 years: 8.6%

And it would be prudent to anticipate for career planning purposes that at least half of those slots will be filled with military or other OTS hires, not flow from Horizon. Barring growth at Alaska, it would be a slow slog. But even a 2% annual growth would increase pilots by 40 new hires a year.

Also, that's just retirement numbers. I have a few guys in a crash pad that are at AK that "said" they would jump ship to any of the big 3 plus Fedex/UPS. So as the retirement numbers increase for the larger pilot groups, scalping from smaller airlines will probably be standard practice.