Is there a source for this?

VP of flight ops was the source of not exercising the options. Furlough numbers were from doing the math of a 17 airframe loss.

Bang------------------------------=
:)

Thats me dodging a bullet.

So not one person is going to retire, or quit between now and when the jets are gone?

My guess is that with the way hiring is going and the lack of planning for retirement on most Senior captain will mean that you wont see more than 30-40 people leave over the next year.

It'll only be 169 furloughs...you can have my seat. I too dodged a bullet! Altho prolly not as painful as boreds would have been.

Rumor has it that there is a survey out asking Alaska pilots what their thoughts are on bringing a third party in, since HORIZON is losing money and thats the reason they are having to fight for a raise. If they got someone cheaper to fly it they could get their money back.

OHHHH MANNNNNNNN Im stirring the pot on this one.:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

The pilots at Alaska do not want any third party players at all!

The pilots at Alaska do not want any third party players at all![/quote]

Whew!!

I'm glad I bailed out last year for AS. Talk about dodging a bullet!

That's what I'm getting from everyone as well. A third party wouldn't receive a warm welcome from us at all.

From the 1Q confrence call....
-------------------
Raymond Neidl – Calyon Securities (USA), Inc.

Would you consider contracting out to a third party for smaller aircraft?

William S. Ayer

Yeah, Ray, we may well do that. We don’t have a huge need for that. It may be something like three our four airplanes for particularly small cities that feed Seattle and Portland. It may be that our need for that is so small that we have trouble attracting someone but that is actually part of our thinking, to look at someone’s Delta, serve some of the particularly thin city fares that feed Seattle and Portland.

--------------------

Sounds to me like the outsource would be to replace a few Dash 8 200s, not CRJ 700s.

All of this doesn't make sense, QX training dept. is planning on hiring more around August and says they are planning on even doing two classes a month in August and on from there.

So they canceled the June class, have 8 Q4 FOs and 1CRJ FO that started this month, and plan to hire and train again in August?

Yet we are also talking about furloughing up to 170 people, these are all contradicting statements... I don't know who to trust anymore.

The VP of Flight Ops is also the same guy that keeps saying EFB's are gonna be in the airplanes any day now. I have been worried we won't excercise those options since lately the business model has been to grow through shrinking.:confused:

I just heard that the training department is preparing to be really busy starting in August, also. :confused:

I don't know what to think. Every day, I hear about a few more people that are leaving Horizon for somewhere else, and it seems rare to hear of a jet guy that is planning on staying to transition to the 400, especially the senoir guys.

Is it possible that, in the 18-24 months that they plan that this fleet transition will take, normal attrition plus the CRJ-to-Q400-induced-attrition will be enough to thin out the pilot group that they are going to be glad that they hired these extra pilots? That has to be their theory, because they wouldn't pay to train them unless they felt that they are going to be needed. The only thing that I can figure out, is that the reason for the contradictions, stems from the fact that we are in negotiations. They are telling us one thing, and doing another.

I am curious to see where this goes.

One of the reasons they will be busy is they are still filling differences classes for Captains. I've heard (unofficially) that FO differences will probably start in Sept.

Compass is Hiring!

Get used to it!!! It is the way that they operate. I dont think attrition will be as high as everyone hopes. The senior guys, RJ and 400, cannot afford to go anywhere but a major with great second year pay. For that reason they may b!$@% a ton but in the end they will be in the 400.

Its actually 9 Q4's and 1 RJ for the class this month.

Welcome to Horizon newbies!!!

have fun.......

Any new news. Im kind of outta the loop.

Talk at Horizon is that maby EMB170s are coming.

Anyone else concur?

Nothing really new that hasn't been posted. We are going to La Paz in the fall. Alaska is pulling out of Loreto and La Paz in the future ( i forget the date.) We are using the RJ until they get the ok for the 400. That is going tobe a long flight in the 400. Other than that nothing really new, just some people that are upset with everything. The new RJ schedules have a couple days with 6 legs. In know that is nothing but with the jet doing:
PDX-SEA
SEA-PDX
PDX-Boi
Boi-geg
geg-sea
sea-vancouver

And why is the jet not profitable?


Why would we want the 170? They want 100 seats and getting the 170 we still have hte same amount of seats as the 700. I am not going to bring up the fuel burn, so lets not go down that road. Now the 190 is a different story but that won't be coming for a while. Mgmt is going to offer the senior captains a retirement incentive but it probably wont be enough to have them retire.

I also think the 170 will never happen. And I am doubt 190s also. The last thing they want to do is pay Horizon guys more. The 190 rumor has been going around for what like 4 years now? I think it would be GREAT but I wouldnt hold my breath. Unless they are banking on shinny Jet symdrome to have them flown at the same price as the 400.

We'll get those as soon as EFBs show up!

Hey is there any word if/when Horizon will look to hire again?

^^^ Probably after they decide if they are going to furlough 1/4 of their pilots or not.

Horizon isn't the best place to be going right now...

"Rumor has it that there is a survey out asking Alaska pilots what their thoughts are on bringing a third party in, since HORIZON is losing money and thats the reason they are having to fight for a raise. If they got someone cheaper to fly it they could get their money back."


Rumors that I have heard is that good old Bill at ALK is looking at either Compass or Republic for the third party carrier. Do the ALK pilots have scope or is the possibility of Compass bringing the EMB195 a plausible thought is Bill's head?:mad:

The real question is, why do you want to work there??

That's not a likely scenario. In fact, that is not even possible. Compass is a wholly owned subsidiary of NWA and they are having a hard time staffing just for the aircraft that they are going to get (36 E175s). Additionally, E195s are not allowed to be flown by any regionals including Compass, and Compass is not allowed to fly for anyone other than NWA (After the merger for DAL).

Horizon is unlikely to order E175s for they are less fuel efficient than CRJ7s or CRJ9s. Looks like Horizon will go all turboprop and unload CRJ7s. E195s, if it is ever purchased by Alaska will go to Alaska as a mainline jet but I do not see that happening.

Flew into SMF and PDX on the good ol skywest "beer can" EMB120 during my IOE and have to say those "College Jets" (just saw the Beavers and the Ducks) really look pretty good and like the whole idea of doing it.

Yeah too bad it was a waste of time and money!! They need more skittles aircraft.

Here's the complete scenario:

1. QX replaces CRJs with Q400s.
2. They get an Ejet contractor to fly E190/195s.
3. The sell Alaska Airlines out of the Air Group.
4. They acquire E190/195s for QX and pay the CRJ (jet) pay scale.
5. They phase out the contractor as they phase in the Ejets.
6. They're betting the legacy that buys Alaska (CAL, AA or SWA) does what legacies always do with West Coast airlines...deploy the assets into the East/West route structure.
7. They rebuild the Alaska System using QX labor, Q400s and E190/195s.

Of course, that would take long term thinking on the part of Air Group management, so it probably won't happen.

I thought Frontier paid for those paint jobs. Plus, I hate those "skittles" ones. Looks like a birthday party threw up all over the plane.

They spent 100k for the design on the "barf plane". Not to mention what it cost to paint it. Also they painted it on one of the 2 planes they got from China and its a POS!!!!

G.P-1 is the biggest POS i've flown at Horizon.