Horizon Air Hiring any time soon?
 

I have pretty much established the conclusion I can't go to a major from a 135 job flying the mighty metro.

I would like to move to a Horizon base, and possibly have a shot at Alaskan.

Any rumors out there when they might open an application window?

Thanks

Props

Last I heard was they may be opening the app window in September for October classes. Management is expecting a large amount of attrition in 2012. Also, use caution when choosing Horizon. For domicile reasons I can understand that but you may want to look at other options too. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. A friendly piece of advice, it's Alaska not Alaskan. Best of luck with whatever you choose.

noted.... thanks

................

I live in the Northwest and would prefer to stay in the area so I've had my eyes on Horizon too but since they just gave their CRJs and a bunch of their routes to skywest shouldn't they have more pilots than planes right now? Or did they order more Q400s? Also, if our ultimate goal is to get to a major do you think it would be a better idea to go to a place like skywest and built some jet time on a CJ as apposed to nothing but prop time at Horizon?

Networking, PIC time, and 121 time. Dont get too caught up in jet time. It helps, but its not a necessity.

I would be careful of QX right now. They are basically giving up their brand to become an express carrier to Alaska. BIG mistake IMHO!

Alaskan? Who the heck is that?

Fo's are pushing 11 years and the top 175 are not going anywhere. Want to guess how long its going to take to hold a line in the left seat?

I can guarantee you that if you get the name of the airline you want to work for right, your chances of getting hired there will increase by a factor of 100 at a minimum.

"Alaskan"...the brewery in JNU. Makes a great Amber, Summer, and White Ale. Good dudes there too...

Mookie

Shoot for SkyWest: Bases in SEA, PDX, SFO, SLC, DEN. Currently flying for Alaska, United, Delta. Just added another partner with USAir. Significantly understaffed and hiring into next year. Largest RJ operator in the world.

Not that everything is perfect, but you have to make the best decision you can with the information you have available at the time.

I spent six years at QX, during that time I was able to witness the transformation of Horizon from an airline that most pilots wanted to go to, to a place that is a dead-end job. There will be some attrition to Alaska, WN, DAL, etc., but the top third of the seniority list is in it for the long haul. AAG BOD gets nervous when QX has more than 60 airplanes on the property. Horizon is not the same place that I was hired at seven years ago, that's why I left. Upgrade is at least going to be eleven years and maybe closer to twelve. That a long time to sit in the right seat of a turboprop. They will not get any jets in the foreseeable future. Glenn Johnson is on record saying that QX will not even bid on any flying requiring a jet.

Exactly what DashTrash said...I left in 2007, just before things really went downhill, and it's the best decision I've ever made. Horizon has good people, good equipment, and interesting flying, but other than that it is career suicide. Don't waste your time there.

Dont care about holding the left seat at Horizon... Have over 2000 hours of PIC turbine time in a sewer pipe with two engines. Just need the 121 time, and would prefer to live in that part of the world.

Thanks for the advice; I might keep SkyWest in mind. I know nothing about how hard it is to get a base in that part of the country though with them.

Yes... Ill admit, I botched the airline name. Sorry... Alaska. I work very odd hours in the morning, and sometimes things don't get typed the way I visioned. Sorry if I offended you.

Take care every one, have a good weekend.

props

If you want to fly bigger equipment, for a bigger airline someday, then why would you go to a place that only flies T-Props now? I say that with a heavy heart and not to stir the pot at all, what happened to QX was horrible. It just sucks.

They used to be a crown jewel of a place to aspire to, where pilots were actually getting time at other regionals on purpose to step stone to Horizon with the intention of a career. If you’re a local kid from the area, sure, it makes sense, but not if you want to compete with all the other 28 year olds with 2,000+ Jet PIC.

I agree with the ealier poster, target SkyWest or maybe Republic and get to the DEN base.

And regarding T-prop time, we all know friends that made it to "_______" airlines with nothing but that time, but in this job market, why handicap yourself? You are setting yourself up to be hired deep into the next real hiring cycle.

Quite honestly, if you're going to make such a big change already for the sake of your career, don't half-arse it. Limiting yourself to the Pacific Northwest greatly, greatly limits your options. There's essentially CFI, Pt 135 cargo, Horizon, Alaska, and senior Skywest bases. That's it. If you absolutely must live in the PNW and cannot commute, you might as well stay in your current job, make a better wage, get more T-PIC, and network your butt off. I really don't see 121 t-prop SIC time being the key that finally unlocks the doors to the majors for you. Heck, who exactly is hiring right now that you're so sure you're unqualified with your current turbine PIC?? :confused:

What's wrong with staying in the PNW if that's where you want to live? so many pilots sell themselves out just to "Fly a Jet" and wear a pilot cap. A handful of people understand a lifestyle is what you want to pursue, not metal. Those people are the happiest, generally.

I have to agree with you here. While I'd love to have a major airline job and lifestyle with a 3-400K house and a nice car in the driveway theres more to the picture than income and equipment. For me where I live and proximity to family and the outdoor activities I love top the list and is why I'm here in Seattle flying greasy old pt 135 airplanes rather than an RJ in Florida or Newark. I"m much happier in my current gig than being a jet capt out east.....for now anyway. Count me in as another Seattle based 135 guy interested in Horizon. Besides, I can forget about selling my house any time soon! :p

Nothing is wrong with staying in the PNW, but the CA's I flew with while I was at QX who stayed there as a lifestyle choice, and are now QX-4-lifers were genererally the least happy. I could see one reason why; they watched their airline go down the tubes over the years. On the other hand, they've spent the majority of their career earning a barely liveable wage for the region. Once they finally got captain pay, they started to play financial catch-up. It's easy to say that all you need is to be a Q400 CA in your career, but say that after 15 years, and you're juggling a mortgage, 401k, student loans, 529 plan, etc. Especially when you could've gone someplace that is a stepping stone to the legacies, been at one in 4-5 years, and making 5 -10 year FO pay (which would likely exceed 15 year QX CA pay), based in SEA or SFO, working 12-15 days / month

Edit: I could see QX being a great place to land for young people (<35) who want to end up at AS. Or if you already have a stack of cash under your mattress and money is not an issue.

If you want a job to suit your lifestyle right now, forget the airlines. Become a cop, a firefighter, an accountant, etc. You have to build your life around this job for the first 5-10 years. If you accept this fact, you'll probably be better off (and happier) in the long run. JMHO :)

Allegiant has a base in Bellingham. Might not be a bad place to hang out until you can get the Alaska job.

To realize your goal of flying for a major airline you need PIC time. You'll spend a decade at QX in the right seat. You'll need 2000 hours of SIC time at QX to be considered for an interview at Alaska.

So what's you ultimate goal? If its to live in the Pacific Northwest go for QX. Just realize you may get trapped there for your career.

If its to get a major airline job, find a regional where you can upgrade quickly. Get your PIC time and move on.

^^^ sounds to me like he already has the PIC, but doesn't think Alaska will hire him straight out of a 135 job. Does Alaska heavily prefer 121 experience?

Alaska Airlines in the past has hired a few Ameriflight pilots-most of them flew out of BFI as 1900 and Metro CAs.

True! You have a great point. I'm just merely trying to play Devil's advocate. Everything really is a compromise. Family, pay, location, equipment are all juggling acts (Although, I'd like to say family takes priority! But to each their own), and it's a tough balance. The trick is to be grateful where you are, if you're making enough money to support yourself. Makes things more bearable.

I always joke with myself I shoulda been ATC!

Cheers

starting to hate

All FO's in all bases are being offered Time Off Without Pay (TWOP) for the next bid or two. That means we are over staffed with FO's and we are not adverse to furloughing if TWOP doesn't get the staffing where it needs to be. I am not sure we are going to hire anytime soon and if we do good luck!

I'm from the NW and grew up with AS captains living in the same neighbor hood as my parents. They all said go to QX when things were good. Now after teaching some of there kids how to fly and flying for a non north west regional they say that networking is the key to get an interview.

I've been really thinking about that too!! My friend is ATC at a fairly calm airport (EUG), my age, and just barely completed his training (which cost almost nothing compared to the student loans I ended up with going through flight training), and he's making 80,000 a year. And here I am, only making 20,000 flying...

But then I remember how much more fun flying is.

And that's why you only make only 20K. As long as management can capitalize on your love of flying, no one will make $.

Flying is fun but is flying airliners even flying? Not really, one landing a day, AP only flying. Flying a 172 requires more decision making skills than an airliner, at least you have to calculate the pattern altitude.

I fly a 1949 Cessna 170A on the weekends. That's fun flying. Airliner flying is pretty boring in comparison. Certainly not enough fun to justify crappy pay. Few if any are taking a regional job because its fun, it is because it is viewed - rightly or not - as a prerequisite for a job at the majors.

Exactly, as long as we love our job, and have a passion for what we do, we will always be poor. It's about time we all showed how miserable we are and how much we hate those stupidheads in management. Sounds like a solid plan :rolleyes:

Sorry brah, not buying it. If anything, pilots who love their work and have dedicated their lives to this profession are the ones making headway toward improving pay and schedules for everyone. A strong, dedicated, professional group of pilots will always have more bargaining power than a group of weak, selfish, miserable pilots. Not JMHO, it's a basic principle of negotiations

Edit: I get what you're saying about not selling out...but now that you're a part of this industry (you've already sold out), what positive steps are you taking on a daily basis to improve our profession?

2nd Edit: It made me happy to see my ex-QX brothers stand up against mgmt's proposed TA. What a joke, you guys deserve better! Keep showing GJ & Co. that you guys EARN your pay on a daily basis, and a COLA on your pay each year is not too much to ask

Not for nothing, but you know there's no limitation on how much you can hand fly. Just saying...

And I always hear this whole, "well flying is fun but airline flying isn't 'real' flying" argument. Okay, well, great. If you know of somewhere I can go get paid to mess around in a Piper Cub, go do some steep turns and touch and goes for kicks and giggles, sign me up. And don't say instructing, because it's not the same and you know it. Airlines pay crap everywhere to start out with. Well I've got bills to pay and flying airplanes is one of the best marketable skills I have. There are a lot of fun things I wish I could do instead but I can't get paid to just have fun.

And I'm going to respectfully disagree that flying a 172 requires more decision making skills than a transport category aircraft. More hand flying skills, perhaps, depending on how much you use the automation, but there are WAY more decisions to be made in an airline cockpit than whether or not I've got my carb heat on. Unless of course you're deviating your 172 around weather going 250kts with 10 minutes of extra fuel and a guy in the back with chest pains.

Give it a while and see how much you and the pilots you fly with use the AP. Give it 3 months and make me a list of the decisions you make as an airline First Officer (and deciding to do your walk around now or later doesn't count as a decision, neither does deciding between coke or 7 up). Then go rent a 172, plan a flight from San Diego to Sacramento, fly it and then make a list of all the decisions you had to make. Your GA list will be 5 times as long. Airline flying is cake, pure and simple. How can being in an airliner with 10 minutes of extra gas and a sick passenger be harder than being in a 172 and how is speed relevant? You can't have a low fuel situation with a sick passenger in a 172? At least in an airliner I know how much gas I have, in a 172 I am always just guessing while looking at gas gauges that are constantly changing. In an airline there are two engines, at least 3 crew members, all of ATC and all of dispatch at your disposal. You are not only drastically over exaggerating airline flying you are also over glorifying it.

Hey jayray, let me guess: you sit in the right seat?

To put it another way: if you think it's that easy, you're not paying attention.

I guess their is a third option. You ARE a captain, just not a very conscientious one.

Yeah, I sit in the right seat. I'm not paying attention? To what? I am pretty good at paying attention to not only the conversation with the person next to me but also monitoring ATC at the same time. Is that what you are referring to? Let me guess, you sit in the right seat and you think you have difficult decisions to make? I'll admit that difficult decisions may need to be made but they are rare. A private pilot might not realize it and might not be good at it, but the decisions they make are just as difficult as the decisions you make and they are faced with more decisions throughout a flight than a typical airline flight. Tell me the decisions you had to make on your last flight - don't over embellish and reach back 5 years ago to when you lost an engine and had to divert to your second alternate. Did you pick your runway? Your route? Your departure? Your alternate? Your pattern entry? Did you do your W&B? Did you calculate your fuel burn? How many minutes of the flight did you actually fly the airplane? All I am saying is airline flying is as far away from flying an airplane as you can get without sitting in some office flying a drone.

I guess if you plan on being a career FO, Jay, then sure. I wouldn't say I don't get to make decisions. I make decisions all the time. It's just when the captain disagrees, his decision wins. A good FO advocates. Unless your captains are talking you through each and every thing you do on your legs, you probably make plenty of decisions too. Apparently without realizing. I'm not saying I don't use the autopilot plenty (just hand flew my leg of a LIT turn, albeit not by choice), I'm just saying I don't gripe about how I never get to hand fly and the automation makes it so easy. No one forces you to use the autopilot. And you really missed my point. I'll bet you're right, a solo cross country in a 172 might force me to make and rely on more of my own decisions absent any other guidance. Last I checked, there aren't many jobs like that around. If you'd rather go fly single pilot night cargo then be my guest because you make it seem like the Saab isn't challenging you much and you think it to be a waste of your time.

That's it... Keep talking about how easy it is and how a monkey can do it. Boy that just really grinds my gears. Why should they pay us anything if we keep spreading that kind of rhetoric? We might have been over glorifying it twenty years ago but no one is today, that's for sure. What glorification?

If it's so easy to operate a modern airliner then what, do you suppose, is all of the education, flight school, hours, certificates, ratings, types, and time building for? I don't know about you but I could have bought a house. You can operate a 172 with less than 40 hours.

Form the right seat, I've exercised CRM and offered plenty of input concerning maintenance items, fuel burn, flight planning, W&B, weather conditions, deviations, in flight abnormals, and in flight emergencies. Not only that but I have to make decisions about how to approach those issues with the PIC. If all you think you're doing over there is turning the packs on and off then you should probably reevaluate what you've chosen to do for a profession. You can call me a-lot of things but don't call me glorified. ...If only that were the case.

Dude, jay...in case you're confused, you're on an Airline Pilot Forum...it's safe to assume we all know how much the autopilot is used, and that sometimes it gets boring. You don't need to educate anyone here about the differences between flying 121 vs. a 172. It's also safe to assume the majority of us were CFI's at some point in our careers, and we're all aware of just how easy it is to put together a VFR or IFR flight plan. In fact, I'm willing to bet most of us could do it under 2 minutes flat...if not on the roll. Don't even try to make it sound like planning a flight is hard, especially in a piston-single aircraft

You must be the luckiest airline pilot alive. I've been in a few sticky situations as a result of mistakes made by the very people that you assume are doing their job correctly (dispatchers, mechanics, ATC, GSA's, schedulers, etc.). They are human, just like us, and are bound to make mistakes just as we do sometimes. I guess it just makes your job easier to simply assume they did it right. :rolleyes: