That's really good, sincere advise. Something to think about.

I came from the same place as ATR and I agree that many things here are worse than our previous life. It's tough because we worked for a good company that died by 1000 cuts and it is deja vu for us.

Staying and fighting would be one option.....but it wouldn't have worked at the previous company. Will it work here? I don't know. I don't have ten years to try. Sometimes it is best to cut your losses.

I'm just ready for some good news for a change. A decade of cuts will make you that way.

Hey, check your PM.

I assume expressjet?

Look I get it as an AWAC guy when I was hired we were told in class that we lost the AirTran jet connect flying, than Mesa and Chautauqua started flying for United, than we found out we didn't have a contract signed by United, than they asked us for concessions, than we lost our United flying, closed every base, got rid of the Bac-146s a huge chunk of our pilot group quit our CP died to be replaced by a complete jerk who took apart our CBA little by little. We were all displaced asked again for concessions, found out the company used our money that they should have given to United to invest in Airways, we won the lawsuit but got almost nothing. Changed CEOs asked for concessions and until just a few months ago figured they were finished. But now it's changed pay is better and they have pref interviews with United.

So we can complain all day long but you can't change history. I assume it's better to be here than expressjet right now. It's like MXC floaters and sinkers
(I miss that show)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gry5USP5jVQ

You need to find the rock you can stand on.
Back when the big guys were furloughing it was JetBlue but times change. Round and round we go, up today down tomorrow. JetBlue has just not caught up its that simple. Will they I think so but everyone needs to do what is right for them.

Having no tpic seems to be what is in demand.

Hes right about a few things though Payne. And I think youll get your wish about guys like us leaving. It may take a year or so but ATR, me and a few hundred others will seek life elsewhere and benefit your mental health. Hope B6 orders a few more sims- theyre gonna need it.;)

At this point, how many do you think would leave with or without a CBA if they got a call from DAL? My guess is 20%+. What say you?

Yup. Can ya believe it? :confused::rolleyes:

See this is my problem with you.

I said
"Honestly ATR I just hope you find some kind of happiness with your career if it is at JetBlue(I hope so)great if not this is the best time ever to go where you want"

And you post that I wish guys like him would leave.

Go read what is in the middle of the (...) again.

Ugh

I hope you guys do stay because at least you care.

The juicers continue to hinder the progress we so richly desire by their constant and blind support for a management team who is as anti-pilot as any in the industry. You don't cut benefits, pay and schedules when you truly practice what you preach. The juicers take everything at face value and because a CP gives you a lift up award or a gate agent says "hello" then clearly Jetblue is a great place to work because a false smile or thank you really does pay for your medical bills or put your children through college.

The Paynes and Southerners need to go for progress to be made but alas they remain and the company cheers in their uncritical acceptance.

Death by a thousand cuts with a smile and a handshake.

And pizza...yay!

Yeah that's right I am uncritical and accept everything.
Gmafb
This is the problem with guys like you.
You just want to see what you want to see. I have plenty of posts that are critical of the company but you need your narrative. Maybe you should go into journalism they like to attack people and only give half the story.

What exactly do you guys miss from XJT? I was there. Legacy XJT and I gotta tell you there's not much I miss. Hotels I'll absolutely agree with but I can't think of anything else. I do miss the one day we were named SureJet though. :D

Not saying we're not far behind, we are. But to say everything was better at XJT is not being honest with yourself. I'm on 4th year FO pay and I make $121/hr compared to an 18 year CA there at $109/hr.

^^^JUICER^^^(saved you guys some time)

No need for snark... most of that post is a mischaracterization of what I've posted here. I know you don't like your posts to be mischaracterized. Although it's 100% true that we are 30-40% behind our peers and there are a couple guys here who whitewash the situation here at JB due to their blind love for this place.

I'm just trying to keep it real with my posts here. They are my experiences and perceptions with a fresh set of eyes having been here less than two years. Coopervane summed it up pretty well. It's just a massive disappointment. This could be a great place to work, but currently with no CBA and being so far behind our peers, and with coworkers who are more interested in sticking their head in the sand and gloving up rather than donning an ALPA lanyard, it just isn't anywhere close to that. I honestly hope that changes but I'm not holding my breath.

After the snark, the second half of your post was fair advice. As an aside, I find myself in agreement with your posts on BP the vast majority of the time but your tone here seems a little different. Maybe it's just me.

I never worked under the XJT contract, so I can't really compare my experience to yours.

The ASA contract had some pitfalls (namely reserve), but the bidding, vacation, rigs and hotels were FAR superior to what we have here. Like, not even in the same universe. Rigs...I have to work significantly more days per month here to reach the same credit I could there. Vacation...One vacation week straddling two months could net over 5 weeks off straight without taking a hit to guarantee. Oh and I could actually hold summer vacation weeks as a junior guy.

Well, no $hit you make a better hourly here than you did at XJT. You aren't flying an E-135 anymore or working for a contractor. The fact that you make $121/hr on your way to a crappy airport hotel layover isn't exactly a glowing endorsement of working conditions here.

My point wasn't that I want to go back to the regionals. It was that our work rules shouldn't be THIS far inferior to my previous contract.

I don't know why it would be a different tone. Call it like I see it.

This is a dumb argument. I'm out.

Our rigs at B6 are concurrent with the rest of the industry, specifically our peers so Im curious what your ASA rigs were. Our current rigs aren't a problem.

What needs to be fixed is a change to average daily guarantee versus our current duty period average.

"for all of our mental health" Read that again jp- your words. Keep track of your posts.

Payne- you are always right aren't you?
So do you want him to leave for "your mental health" as well?:D

I did and it's a valid point.
Just like staying in a bad relationship, if you know it's bad why keep going? Maybe it will work out maybe it won't but you can only plan on what you have now.
I'm not insulting him but if he is that disappointed and I didn't argue with his points, it's most likely better if he is able to move on. I have said time and again that JetBlue has done this and it annoys me that guys like you or bluedriver or ATR even have to think about leaving.
Like it or not our jobs are part of who we are so this stuff does start to seep into other parts of our lives.

Me always right, never.
Just have opinions and like to argue points.

10

hour

3

day

I've got no dog in your fight, but you miserable sob's that believe everyone is miserable like you and that a smile must be fake really make everything you say appear emotional only. There are happy people in the world, genuinely happy, who despite circumstances remain happy and they live much longer. I can't imagine walking around believing everyone who appears happy has an agenda, what a life you live, please say you have no children to perpetuate and project your misery.

Amen brotha'!

So you don't work here. Got it. So you don't understand the cultists that populate this place.

Get real! To insinuate that all smiles are agenda driven only appears as psychotic. Blinders only let a horse see straight ahead, this guy's myopic view is only due to misery in himself. I smile all the time without agenda and know many that do the same. Misery not only loves company, but seeks to create company.

I don't think he said that all smiles are agenda driven, but many of them from management here are. Their agenda: make you happy to accept less pay.

Incase the rigs guy didn't see it.

If you don't work here then you don't get it. I didn't get it while I was in training... it was when I hit the line when I realized how this place actually worked. If you have no dog in the fight then perhaps you shouldn't comment on the fake "culture" if you haven't been subjected to it.

Their heads are planted so deep into the sand it isn't even funny. Before I came here I never worked a 3 day worth less than 18 or a 4 day worth less than 22. But the juicers are perfectly A-OK with 10 hour 3 days. Boggles the mind.

I saw it. Twice.

I'll say it again for you. In bold this time. And underlined.

What we need is the addition of an average daily guarantee versus what we have now, a duty period average.

If you hate 10 hour 3 days like I do, then this is what you want to see in the CBA Not a change to the duty or trip rigs(which are on par with our peers).

We're on the same team remember? Everyone's so caught up in "us" vs "them" on this forum that when someone's giving you a solution to the problem you're complaining about, you still ridicule and assume they're a "juicer" and "don't get it."

GMAFB

Its not misery Dog, its discomfort with being so far behind our counterparts and a frustration with the guys here who defend a dishonest company at every turn. Im fed up with the bs here, but enjoy the job for the most part.
Funny enough, its the guys I fly and work with that make it at all tolerable.
Btw, if youre so happy, why the personal attack in this post?:cool:

I agree we need a daily guarantee, but average is not the way to go.

I like constructive discussion... What would be better? What's the downside to the average daily guarantee I'm missing?

A straight min day guarantee (say 5). No average.

Definitely not average! 5:15-5:30 min day is the way to go. If I'm on a three day and I fly 2,2,7 then under daily average I would be paid 15 hrs credit. Now make that a 5:15 min day guarantee an the credit would be 17.5 credit. That's my take at daily average vs min day guarantee.

So we should average it is what y'all are saying?

No, minimum daily credit rig.

Average daily guarantee
 

I believe that an average daily guarantee is the way to go, since I really hate the idea of 10 hour three-days, of which I have done my share of.

Yeah, not for nuth'n, but I can safely say anything less than 5hr calendar day is an automatic "no" for me.

I don't care if it 12yr CA pays $270. Credit for time away is what I need. I'm tired of my time being wasted in PSE, ABQ, DEN, PHX, OAK, SMF, KIN.

I agree 100%! They're a waste of time.